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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DEFCON 1" data-source="post: 5792025" data-attributes="member: 7006">I'll bite.The problem as it stands right now is that there are NO applicable single "sub-classes", based upon how you've set up the four primary classes.  You've selected four properties to distinguish those four primary classes (prime attribute, power source, caster/noncaster, warrior/expert) but left no spaces within the "grid" where an actual single sub-class makes sense.To be an actual "sub-class"... there has to be a direct parent/child relationship between the primary class and sub-class beneath it.  If there isn't a direct relationship... then what you have isn't really a "sub-class", but rather just another random primary class.  Thus we have to ask ourselves, "Which of the four properties you've established for the primary classes are considered to be a true 'parent' of whatever sub-class is underneath it"?I would suggest that the only two properties that 'parent' property could be are prime attribute or power source.  The reason being... if you used caster/noncaster and warrior/expert as the 'parent' ability (as you did with your selection of sub-classes)... there are so many alternate options for power source that we'd go way beyond 1 sub-class each.  For example:Your Fighter's "parent properties" were 'Non-caster' and 'Warrior'.  Your sub-class selection also was a 'non-caster' and 'warrior'.  It stands to reason that  any valid sub-classes should therefore be:'Stealth' 'non-caster' 'warrior''Divine' 'non-caster' 'warrior' or'Arcane' 'non-caster' 'warrior'However, you weren't even able to do that... you ended up creating an entirely new fifth power source for your selection.  Thus... using caster/noncaster and warrior/expert as parent properties are not effective.  You are leaving too many logical sub-classes wide open.The next option is to turn it around and use as a 'parent property' for your sub-class selection, just Power Source.  Anything else does not make logical sense from a "sub-class" perspective.  So in this regard... your property choices for the Fighter sub-class would be as follows:Fighter - 'Martial' 'non-caster' 'warrior'Sub-class - 'Martial' 'caster' 'warrior' or 'Martial' 'non-caster' 'expert'This is much easier to choose.  Of those two options... the most applicable choices would be Monk ('Martial' 'caster' 'warrior') or Warlord ('Martial' 'non-caster' 'expert').To continue down the line:Thief - 'Stealth' 'non-caster' 'expert'Sub-class - 'Stealth' 'caster' 'expert' or 'Stealth' 'non-caster' 'warrior'I would choose Assassin and Ranger for them.Cleric - 'Divine' 'caster' 'warrior'Sub-class - 'Divine' 'non-caster' 'warrior' or 'Divine' 'caster' 'expert'I would choose Paladin and Invoker.Mage - 'Arcane' 'caster' 'expert'Sub-class - 'Arcane' 'non-caster' 'expert' or 'Arcane' 'caster' 'warrior'I would choose Artificer and Swordmage.But even at this point... we're still left with two sub-classes per power source... PLUS we're ignoring the entire fifth power source of Primal.  What does that mean?  It means that using the definition of "sub-class" to select the four remaining classes for the first book is a fool's errand.  It doesn't work and doesn't make sense.  Whatever you choose, they aren't "sub-classes".  Not in any traditional or logical sense.  Better to just choose eight popular classes randomly without categorizing them, because you're less apt to make illogical connections that way.</blockquote>

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