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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DEFCON 1" data-source="post: 5792219" data-attributes="member: 7006">I absolutely understand everything you're saying and agree with most of your own personal opinions about the classes and which ones work, which ones don't, why some would be good or not good in the "starter 8" etc. etc.  But the reason why I didn't just select 4 random classes as "sub-classes" was to get at the heart of how you were breaking things down.I believe using the term "sub-class" in the way you were speaking of it, was a misnomer.  In terms of what you seem to wanted to get at, the Barbarian, Avenger, Druid, and Witch aren't really "sub-classes".  They're just classes.  Just as primary as Fighter, Thief, Cleric, and Mage.  And when you come at it from that position... that you aren't needing to come up with applicable sub-classes of the Fighter, Thief, Cleric, and Mage (because to do so is to make jumps, assumptions, and eliminations of classes just so they fit into some type of "sub-class" classification)... the selection ends up being much different.Eight classes in the main book?  Fighter, Rogue, Ranger, Druid, Cleric, Paladin, Bard, Wizard.  Simple, basic, and prototypical for most D&D players and games.  Four power sources with two classes each (Fighter/Rogue Martial... Ranger/Druid Primal... Cleric/Paladin Divine... Bard/Wizard Arcane) and two classes per role (Fighter/Paladin defender... Rogue/Ranger striker... Cleric/Bard leader... Druid/Wizard controller).  But the reason why I didn't offer this up originally is because I worked off the original premise you offered... which was that the Thief was its own power source and the 'parent' of any sub-class underneath it, and that those four properties were the basis for your four Primary class selections.Basically it came down to me following your guidelines, coming up with an answer, and then saying why I didn't like what I came up with.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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