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Message: <blockquote data-quote="FireLance" data-source="post: 5791675" data-attributes="member: 3424">Because your very first statement in the thread was:It doesn't bode well for the thread when you start it off with what is essentially a demonstrably incorrect statement. After all, the Charisma 18 bard trained in Diplomacy has a +9 bonus to Diplomacy checks at 1st level, while the Charisma 10 fighter gets a +0 bonus instead. So, in any situation which requires smooth talk, you can expect the bard to do the lion's share of the work. The fighter still gets a chance to make that DC 12 or even that DC 15 Diplomacy check if he really needs to, but the bard is still the better person for the job.And as a related point, equality of opportunity does not mean equality of outcome. One thing that I hope they retain from 4e is equality of opportunity, down to the possibility of picking at-will, encounter and daily powers for all classes (and the possibility of not doing so for those who want them). However, the outcomes can be vastly different depending on the luck of the dice, player skill and player choice (the initial choice of powers, in particular, being a very major factor).I guess most of those who feel that 4e classes play the same focus on the equality of opportunity (especially when it comes to gaining powers), while those who do not focus on the very different outcomes.</blockquote>