Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="steeldragons" data-source="post: 6487871" data-attributes="member: 92511">Woooah. I think you're drawing a dichotomy that no one is arguing. I haven't seen anyone suggesting to make the game "win or die". There's a wide range of possible different outcomes between there. But you did start the thread/ask about people's preferences of lethality. So that's what folks are commenting on instead of "how many different ways can the PCs "fail?", which is not what the thread poses.In the context of this thread? One that leads to PC death.Yes. All true. But, say, a PC walks up to the chest and doesn't check for traps? "There's over 40 chests here. They can't all be trapped!"That's a bad decision...and one that could lead directly to PC death.Or the example a few have used of the level 1 party who decide to go hunt down a dragon...cuz, ya know, "Dungeons & Dragons."That's a bad decision...and one that could lead directly to PC death (if not TPK).The stalwart knight, fighting his heart out while companion after companion go down until it's just him and the badly beaten nearly-out-of-spells mage. Given a momentary break in the fighting, breathing heavily and ignoring the pains and blood running down his legs, he notices the sea of dead orcs at their feet. Orc blood mingling with that of their 4 fallen companions. The knight is shocked back to the present by the battle roar of a new batch of 10 more orcs charging down the tower steps."We've got to get out of here! Come here, I will turn us invisible and we can escape!" the mage shouts in panic."NO!" cries the knight. "We stay and FIGHT! We must AVENGE our fallen friends! This evil can not be left to fester! The line must be drawn HEAH and no further!""Well, been nice knowin' ya." <casts Greater Invisibility> "...psycho." With that final word as a farewell, the mage fades from view and hightails it out of the orcish fortress and to the nearest tavern to drown her sorrows and mourn her lost comrades.THAT'S a bad decision. In character, yes, perhaps. Makes for a great story, yes. But for the player looking to prevent the death of their knightly PC, a bad decision. Just so. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Well....yeah. That is what nearly every decision the player/PC makes does, weigh the risk against the reward. It's all most decisions in real life are. Of course there is not knowing it beforehand (least with out an oracle or some other sort of pregcognition...which isn't always out of one's grip in a magical fantasy world).Granted, I have not gone back and reread the thread, but I don't recall anyone saying that any PC "deserves to die." I'm not sure what/where your objection or point is supposed to be here.Again, I have not noticed this in the thread. I have seen "PCs could [and do] die because of very bad luck"...I haven't noted anyone saying they should.I'll just point out, more explicitly, that there are eons of worlds of play between "PC Protection" and a death-grinder like "Tomb of Horrors" in which the question is never (and was never intended to be) "if you die", simply "when" and "how". Again, this seems to me an odd dichotomy to draw when there are limitless avenues between those two possibilities.Well, there, I suppose...I mean I get what you're saying, but if the PC dies "unsatisfactorily" to the player...there's not a whole lot I can do about that. And if there to be bad feelings or anger at the DM, other players, table as a whole, because your pretend elf died in a pretend world in a game of make believe...when you can make up a new one and keep playing...then there are bigger issues at work than how the DM handles lethality in their games. I'm not a huge believer in the whole "making people feel" thing. Our emotions are our own. And everyone needs to, kinda, get a grip and deal with what's in their head instead of blaming others for, somehow, "controlling" the way they feel, i.e. "You made me sad." No, you became sad as a result of X stimuli. I didn't make you. Get a hold of yourself! [the generic "you"s all around. Not you, Li Shenron. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> ]We're not playing a TV Series. We're playing an RPG. Death of your character is on the table as a possibility. If you can't handle that, that's on you. Maybe you'll be more careful/thoughtful/creative next time and your character will live longer as a result.I guess that sounds harsh. But that's basically my playstyle.If I sat at a table, knowing it was going to be a TV Series style game, and I don't have to die until I decide/want to...well, I'm not sitting at that table so it's kinda moot.  Again, who's equating failure with death? There are tons of ways to fail that don't include death. Has anyone said otherwise? This thread [you, Li Shenron] asked about the "preference and how you achieve it" of lethality. If you want to talk "failing to succeed/ways to fail in an RPG" that's a whole 'nother kettle of kuo-toa.EDIT: In the interest of avoiding unnecessary conflict, just amend anywhere I seem to be speaking universally, "...anyone is saying...", to "I'm saying/not saying..." /EDIT</blockquote>

Verification