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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ledded" data-source="post: 1832377" data-attributes="member: 12744">This is almost exactly how we use WP/VP, and our group loves it. The differences: Armor gives both a modest Defense and DR bonus (DR only applies to WP damage). This allows players to utilize armor to some extent, but not be dependent on it. Also we house ruled things like falling damage. For instance, falls greater than 60' mathematically only have a 1% survival rate based on compiled statistics. Our rule is that any unimpeded fall > 60', the damage *beyond* 60' goes directly to WP (the first 60' applying to vitality). Of course, our game, while cinematic at times, does follow a physics model that is fairly realistic therefore a bit grittier than most folks.  I agree with the situational modeling above and wont restate that, but there are a couple more points that I'd like to state in addition. 1) If you use the rule that 'normals' or non-hero classes do not get VP, you can make Mooks that are very proficient (i.e. well trained) but not experienced enough to stand long against a tough crowd (no VP). So a team of bad guys can have enough feats to use automatic weapons effectively, fly/drive really well, etc but go down like a stormtrooper. This has an interesting effect of giving the players good and well-playable low-level mooks that can still scare them, while giving them the opportunity to mow through a crowd if they aren't stupid enough to not take cover. For variety, you can mix a few heroic levels on top of a few non-heroic levels to get better-than-average mooks that still don't have that many VP.  2) Issues with non-lethal/subdual damage go away. There isnt any. If you are hitting for non-lethal damage, you do VP. If you take someone into WP doing non-lethal, they have to make the save to remain conscious *as if* they took WP damage, but don't actually take any. A very well-placed knockout punch on a 1st level non-heroic mook is most likely gonna put his lights out long enough to tie him up, whereas it's a good bit more difficult to do the same to experienced monsters/mooks. Remember with WP damage you have to make a save of DC 5 + *damage taken that round* or fall unconscious for 1d4 rounds, and you are fatigued whether you make the save or not. 3) VP allows the GM to structure more encounters within a closer time-frame, because when the group can restore VP at 1 per level per hour, so an encounter early in the day that doesnt go extremely well still allows the group to be fairly competitive later in the same day without having to depend on massive amounts of magical healing (which in our games, there isnt that much of). It has allowed us to structure our encounters a lot more loosely as it isnt guaranteed that the party will be hurting badly for days after one encounter that goes bad, while there still being the possibility that someone takes WP damage and is fatigued/injured for quite a while and has to be accounted for.  Plus, our spell usage is paid for with VP, WP, and ability damage (or a combination of the three) so you can make yourself tired with a spell, or scramble your brains, or even give yourself an aneurism.  That is always interesting. We've never had any trouble doing a conversion between HP and WP following the guidelines we set out, and any time a situation that we forgot comes up it's usually pretty easy and fast to do it on the spot. So all in all, we like the VP/WP much more that just hit points and a static MDT because, to us, it leads to a much more fluid and easily defined game, even if you have to keep up with one extra statistic (which has never been a problem either). We can keep the action fairly cinematic (a hero gets beaten badly in a big fist-fight, but after a swig of whiskey and a steak on the eye he's ready to go in a few hours) while still maintaining some semblance of physics (a 10-storey unimpeded fall can, and most likely will, kill you outright). And crits are always there to remind you that even 20th level heros can suffer the David and Goliath syndrome <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />. I'd like to try a hit point-less system like that used in MnM or Dana Jorgenson's Gun Opera, but havent convinced the group to try it yet. Drawbacks: A little more info to keep up with, but I've never noticed it being a negative.  Crits with high-damage weapons (giant-size with a big club, or burst fire from a high-caliber weapon) are a problem, and if you don't have ways to get more DR (through armor, spells, talents, etc) then a crit from an Ogre's greatclub or a burst from an M2 .50 cal is most likely going to kill you.  Period.  If this may become a problem in your game, you may have to add some more house rules or adjust things, which may be an issue. Just my 2 cents. NOTE:  We have done playtesting for some d20 Publishers before, and ran combats with WP/VP, then again with MDT and they often can and do come out different, even with the same rolls for most of it.</blockquote>

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