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Lets design a Warlord for 5th edition
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<blockquote data-quote="Zardnaar" data-source="post: 7381953" data-attributes="member: 6716779"><p>Sorcerer is wasting a lot of spells to cast 3 hastes at level 5, its not a very good play.Haste will likely end a combat in 2-3 rounds as well.</p><p></p><p> So assuming the player is not a pumpkin (using sorcerer point sub optimally).A Sorcerer at level 5 can cast haste twice and perhaps twin cast it, either way lets call it 3 time. Assuming each round is about 3 times say 9 rounds, but the sorcerers an be interrupted haste has a draw back etc. Assuming the 6-8 rounds a day and 2 short and each encounter lasting about 3 combats that is 9 rounds out of 18-24 expected rounds and the Sorcerer doesn;t do much else.</p><p></p><p> A battlemaster fighter can do it level 5 4/short rest or around 12 times assuming 2 short rests, can't be interrupted, doesn't get the other benefits of haste. BM fighter can switch betweeen targets as well, haste can't do that. Sorcerer loses a round casting haste the BM gives up an attack. </p><p></p><p>The main objection is the Sorcerer is expending a lot of resources to do that a warlord hypothetically is just giving up and attack which may be sod all damage anyway (2d6+5 to gain 1d8+3d6+5 level 5 rogue). That is almost all the sorcerer is doing depends if they butrn spell slots to get more sorcerer points or ore level 3 spell slots. The sorcerer is going to tank itself fast anyway running out of almost everything in around 3 rounds and then can spam 2d8 or 2d10 cantirps (yay).</p><p></p><p> Some people here want roughly triple strength level 3 ability (BM dice) that are a limited resource at will, some 2 levels earlier.</p><p></p><p> I also assume a warlord would have some other class abilities like heal, an extra ASI (level 6, 10 or 14 pick 1 or 2?), and some other abilities as well (damge scaling and/or multiple attacks).</p><p></p><p> Basically I think most people advocating for at will attack granting are wasting their breath the game designers are not going to put at will attack granting into the game. They have already done it via BM dice, they are not going to do a double or triple strength version of that ability. </p><p></p><p> Functionally at will would be something like 6-9 BM dice perhaps replacing a BM dice with some sort of class ability/"invocation" that grants attacks+rider or an action. Tweaking short rests to 5 mins would allow an additional short rest which would probably make it very close to at will. </p><p></p><p> I think 75% YMMV is a reasonable/upper limit for attack granting it smooths out the Rogue and the warlord can grow into it instead of front loading it in the 1st 3 levels. It should also cost the warlord resources the BM is already front loaded, so assuming the WL gets dice at level 3 (or spells or whatever) they can spend feats, "invocations" or opportunity cost (like hunter rangers pick this or that ability not both). </p><p></p><p> Action granting should not be at will obviously perhaps that could come online at level 5 as as short rest ability IDK.</p><p></p><p>You can homebrew anything you like, don't expect the game designers to put at will attack granting into it. Personally I would like attack granting as an option and the WL to be better at it than say a BM.</p><p></p><p>Generally I think you want to smooth out the power spikes that at will action granting from 4E would present in 5E and some of the other 4E things that would be weak in 5E can be powered up.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Zardnaar, post: 7381953, member: 6716779"] Sorcerer is wasting a lot of spells to cast 3 hastes at level 5, its not a very good play.Haste will likely end a combat in 2-3 rounds as well. So assuming the player is not a pumpkin (using sorcerer point sub optimally).A Sorcerer at level 5 can cast haste twice and perhaps twin cast it, either way lets call it 3 time. Assuming each round is about 3 times say 9 rounds, but the sorcerers an be interrupted haste has a draw back etc. Assuming the 6-8 rounds a day and 2 short and each encounter lasting about 3 combats that is 9 rounds out of 18-24 expected rounds and the Sorcerer doesn;t do much else. A battlemaster fighter can do it level 5 4/short rest or around 12 times assuming 2 short rests, can't be interrupted, doesn't get the other benefits of haste. BM fighter can switch betweeen targets as well, haste can't do that. Sorcerer loses a round casting haste the BM gives up an attack. The main objection is the Sorcerer is expending a lot of resources to do that a warlord hypothetically is just giving up and attack which may be sod all damage anyway (2d6+5 to gain 1d8+3d6+5 level 5 rogue). That is almost all the sorcerer is doing depends if they butrn spell slots to get more sorcerer points or ore level 3 spell slots. The sorcerer is going to tank itself fast anyway running out of almost everything in around 3 rounds and then can spam 2d8 or 2d10 cantirps (yay). Some people here want roughly triple strength level 3 ability (BM dice) that are a limited resource at will, some 2 levels earlier. I also assume a warlord would have some other class abilities like heal, an extra ASI (level 6, 10 or 14 pick 1 or 2?), and some other abilities as well (damge scaling and/or multiple attacks). Basically I think most people advocating for at will attack granting are wasting their breath the game designers are not going to put at will attack granting into the game. They have already done it via BM dice, they are not going to do a double or triple strength version of that ability. Functionally at will would be something like 6-9 BM dice perhaps replacing a BM dice with some sort of class ability/"invocation" that grants attacks+rider or an action. Tweaking short rests to 5 mins would allow an additional short rest which would probably make it very close to at will. I think 75% YMMV is a reasonable/upper limit for attack granting it smooths out the Rogue and the warlord can grow into it instead of front loading it in the 1st 3 levels. It should also cost the warlord resources the BM is already front loaded, so assuming the WL gets dice at level 3 (or spells or whatever) they can spend feats, "invocations" or opportunity cost (like hunter rangers pick this or that ability not both). Action granting should not be at will obviously perhaps that could come online at level 5 as as short rest ability IDK. You can homebrew anything you like, don't expect the game designers to put at will attack granting into it. Personally I would like attack granting as an option and the WL to be better at it than say a BM. Generally I think you want to smooth out the power spikes that at will action granting from 4E would present in 5E and some of the other 4E things that would be weak in 5E can be powered up. [/QUOTE]
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