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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Zardnaar" data-source="post: 7383020" data-attributes="member: 6716779">Strawman argument alot of us have agreed in principle you can have a warlord as an independent class wit the name warlord and it can do most of what it can do in 4E (heal, support, grant attacks etc). You can even have scaling martial healing that is short rest based.  The only real sticking point at will attack granting its like getting hung on on exact mechanics an 2E of 3E. Assume for a moment you don't have a warlord that can grant attacks at will. Assume that they get something else but attack granting is still an option and that includes granting attacks to Rogues (just not at will).  The 4E warlord was built to take advantage of 4E rules, why not have a 5E one that does the same thing in 5E. Another point is even if you grant an attack to the Rogue the amount of damage that rogue is roughly equivalent to 2 or 3 rounds of Rogue damage in 4E. So even if you can only grant 1 attack every second or third round relatively speaking you're doing the same amount as 4E (or even more 5E critters have less hp). Instead of spreading the damage out you are front loading it.  You're so focused on duplicating the 4E ability exactly I don;t think most of you have put much thought into how it works in 5E except maybe "its a bit good for a rogue".  Its obvious that you won't get agreement on that ability its just to good in 5E mechanics doesn't port well. You warlord will still be doing the same or very similar things it did in 4E so whats the problem?It also opens up design space to do other things, a 4E rifder that grants +2 to hit can get upgraded to advantage which is better for example.  Healing is also more iconic to the Warlord than attack granting, itt was built intot he basic class. To function in 5E you are going to need more than the ability to grant second winds 1/short rest there is room there for power creep. And even if you did convince these board member to sign off on this and you went to Mearls (as a group) and said you want at wil attack granting what do you think his response would be (its 3 times as strong as a 5E mechanic). Its obvious you're not going to get it in anything official. There is no vast popular support for the WL class, a dozen people at best demanding an exact replica of an ability in 4E is not enough momentum and most 5E players seem happy with valor bard, BM fighters and a warlord as fighter.  If you want at will attack granting there is already 3pp support for it. You don't need to design anything new if you really want to stand or die on it. It seems people will just shift the goal posts again.  Its more fun trolling the forums I suppose as the last 4venger hold outs. Fighters had weapon specialization for over 20 years that is gone, I can still play a fighter.  You basically have 3 options for at will attack granting.1. Make a one trick pony class (aka the Heart Noble) that is broken/useless or player quit the class both times as she was broken/useless. 2. Break the game (you won't get an official Warlord doing this)3. Make up a heap of complicated rules that won't catch everything and are just confusing and end up with a crap class anyway.  You can't balance at wil attack granting due to the Rogue and keep the game simple which violates the 5E design paradigm. Easier way to do it I suppose would be to have a side bar like in 3.5 for that "minor/bonus" action thing (name eludes me atm) and define a basic attack in that (1W+ability mod) and make it clear you can't put extra damage on it. Sure that is would work but its kinda boring I personally would rather have a limited use grant attack to rogue like the BM.  Basically you would need to define a basic attack, however you want to word that. And then you could add an extra dice of damage at say level 8 and 14 a'la the cleric. You could probably even give yourself 2 attacks (level 5 or 6) and 1 of the attacks could be an attack grant and the other a normal one.</blockquote>

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