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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 7386369" data-attributes="member: 22779">Look at it this way.A 10th level Battlemaster can grant 15 off turn attacks.  Presume 66% hit rates, meaning that the Battlemaster granted 10 sneak attacks.  But, wait, there's more.  The BM also granted 10d8 damage on those 10 attacks, because he gets bonus damage for his commander's strike.  AND the battle master attacked 15 more times (for 10 hits) over the course of granting this 15 attacks.  Going with your presumptions of a fighter dealing d8+5 damage.So, in addition to the 10 sneak attacks, our BM has dealt 20d8+50 points of damage over the course of 15 rounds (Commander's Strike is only usable 1/round) or about 150 points of damage. [MENTION=37579]Jester David[/MENTION]'s warlord has only dealt 10 sneak attacks in 15 rounds since he had to give up all attacks.  Now, it's going to take about 10 more rounds (6 sneak attacks) to catch up to the battle master.  Not do better mind you, just catch up.It takes TWENTY FIVE ROUNDS for JD's warlord to do what a Battlemaster can do right now in 15 rounds.  Never minding that our Battlemaster has been able to grant attacks, or grant movement or grant bonus Temp HP, SINCE THIRD LEVEL.  Why on earth would I play this class?  It's not even as good at being a warlord as a Battlemaster is, and BM's aren't very good warlords.  Why are we "reenvisioning" the class?  Granting actions and inspirational healing are THE iconic warlord elements.  I'm not saying the class has to be as good of a healer as a cleric, fair enough.  But, it should heal and it should do so without spells.  And, it should be better at granting actions than a Battlemaster.And, lastly, why is a warlord in heavy armor?  They weren't before.  They were never meant as tank characters.  One subclass, added later, made warlords more tanky - but the iconic, core of the class never was."Why shouldn't we reimagine the class"?  Because WE WANT A WARLORD.  Not a class that is a piss poor version that isn't even as good as what's in the PHB.</blockquote>

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