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The
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Let's discuss the Mystic v.3
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<blockquote data-quote="hastur_nz" data-source="post: 7053406" data-attributes="member: 40592"><p>Magic and Psionics need to be "pretty much the same", or way too much stuff gets broken / abused. WotC figured this out around 3.5, and it needs to be the same in 5e. Simple example: wizard should be able to Dispel Magic / Counterspell vs Psionics, and visa versa.</p><p></p><p>You totally missed the huge elephant in the room - multi-classing... Not only are some of the options broken if you are a single-class Mystic, but if you allow multi-classing, I'm sure some incredibly OP dips can easily be made, especially the martial classes. Also, it's totally unclear how you should rule a multi-classed spell caster and mystic - the rules work well for multi-classed casters, but because mystics use psi points not spell slots, it seems unfair that they cannot access some kind of 'shared pool' of resource, like say a cleric/wizard can. The Wu-Jen hints at a solution, but botches the implementation IMO...</p><p></p><p>I haven't read it all with a fine toothed comb, but I myself am playing a multi-class Fighter (Eldritch Knight) 6 / Mystic (Awakened) 2, and will convert it to v3 soon (Mystic 3). I've purposely avoided "cherry picking" from some of the crazy options, but still feel like my PC has become slightly too powerful in melee, and definitely too over-powering in terms of utility outside combat; personally I'll definitely restrict myself to only changing psionic focus with a short rest, otherwise I'm leaving very little room for other PC's to be better at mine on anything much.</p><p></p><p>My DM and I initially agreed, under v2 rules, to allow a single "shared pool" of "spell / psi" points, with spell costs as per DMG spell point rules. But the Wu-Jen in v3 has me thinking this gives me too much flexibility; I like the idea of allowing me the total psi points of my total effective levels (e.g. 3 from mystic + 2 from 6 levels of Eldritch Knight = effective level 5 for psi points per long rest), so I'm the same kind of "power level" as if I'd taken wizard instead of mystic. But I also like the idea of having to allocate some of those psi points for spells, e.g. 6 psi for the 3x1st level spells I get as Eldritch Knight. It's not easy to explain, but I think it's worth consideration, once the other "OP" problems are ironed out in the Mystic.</p><p></p><p>Lastly, from just looking at it on paper, I think levels 11-20 are still too "flat". Granted, the initial levels are open to abuse and OP builds, but as written, the only real thing you get from level 11+ is breadth i.e. more versatility from adding new disciplines. Few powers have good uses for 6 and 7 psi points, which is really just the equivalent of 5th and 6th level spells. There's nothing that comes close to 7th, 8th and 9th level spells. For me, the fix is not allowing so many disciplines; they should cap out at say 5 total (so you still have to have some amount of focus, rather than "know everything"); then the Psi Limit needs to keep increasing, and there need to be "uber powers" to use them, right up to 10 psi. Otherwise, I see even more problems with people only using the Mystic as a dip-class, rather than a genuinely good option for full-class, even if you only plan running them up to say level 12-16 max.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="hastur_nz, post: 7053406, member: 40592"] Magic and Psionics need to be "pretty much the same", or way too much stuff gets broken / abused. WotC figured this out around 3.5, and it needs to be the same in 5e. Simple example: wizard should be able to Dispel Magic / Counterspell vs Psionics, and visa versa. You totally missed the huge elephant in the room - multi-classing... Not only are some of the options broken if you are a single-class Mystic, but if you allow multi-classing, I'm sure some incredibly OP dips can easily be made, especially the martial classes. Also, it's totally unclear how you should rule a multi-classed spell caster and mystic - the rules work well for multi-classed casters, but because mystics use psi points not spell slots, it seems unfair that they cannot access some kind of 'shared pool' of resource, like say a cleric/wizard can. The Wu-Jen hints at a solution, but botches the implementation IMO... I haven't read it all with a fine toothed comb, but I myself am playing a multi-class Fighter (Eldritch Knight) 6 / Mystic (Awakened) 2, and will convert it to v3 soon (Mystic 3). I've purposely avoided "cherry picking" from some of the crazy options, but still feel like my PC has become slightly too powerful in melee, and definitely too over-powering in terms of utility outside combat; personally I'll definitely restrict myself to only changing psionic focus with a short rest, otherwise I'm leaving very little room for other PC's to be better at mine on anything much. My DM and I initially agreed, under v2 rules, to allow a single "shared pool" of "spell / psi" points, with spell costs as per DMG spell point rules. But the Wu-Jen in v3 has me thinking this gives me too much flexibility; I like the idea of allowing me the total psi points of my total effective levels (e.g. 3 from mystic + 2 from 6 levels of Eldritch Knight = effective level 5 for psi points per long rest), so I'm the same kind of "power level" as if I'd taken wizard instead of mystic. But I also like the idea of having to allocate some of those psi points for spells, e.g. 6 psi for the 3x1st level spells I get as Eldritch Knight. It's not easy to explain, but I think it's worth consideration, once the other "OP" problems are ironed out in the Mystic. Lastly, from just looking at it on paper, I think levels 11-20 are still too "flat". Granted, the initial levels are open to abuse and OP builds, but as written, the only real thing you get from level 11+ is breadth i.e. more versatility from adding new disciplines. Few powers have good uses for 6 and 7 psi points, which is really just the equivalent of 5th and 6th level spells. There's nothing that comes close to 7th, 8th and 9th level spells. For me, the fix is not allowing so many disciplines; they should cap out at say 5 total (so you still have to have some amount of focus, rather than "know everything"); then the Psi Limit needs to keep increasing, and there need to be "uber powers" to use them, right up to 10 psi. Otherwise, I see even more problems with people only using the Mystic as a dip-class, rather than a genuinely good option for full-class, even if you only plan running them up to say level 12-16 max. [/QUOTE]
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