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Let's Not Save The World...Again
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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 7718825" data-attributes="member: 22779"><p>But, you're presuming that level=level across editions. That's simply not true. The power curve is completely different. Gaining levels in 1e is a huge power bump. The level curve is darn near logarithmic because the monsters don't scale.</p><p></p><p>Think about it, outside of unique monsters, AD&D monsters top out at about 10 HD (outside of dinosaurs and a few others) and an AC of about -2. And that's for the toughest monsters in the game. (Again, excepting unique monsters) The overwhelming majority of monsters have positive AC's.</p><p></p><p>The trick is, AD&D PC's don't really max out. AC's go down to -10 and it's fairly easy to achieve negative AC's. There's no difference particularly, between the HP of a 1-10 AD&D PC and a 5e PC. The 5e PC might have a bit more, but, not hugely more. And saving throws for AD&D PC's continuously improve.</p><p></p><p>And then you start adding magic items into the mix. 1e was pretty free with magic items. Most treasure types gave a chance at multiple magic items.</p><p></p><p>IOW, so what if my 5e PC gains levels faster? A 10th level AD&D PC is equivalent to a 15th level 5e PC relative to their prospective systems. There's a REASON that Against the Giants goes from being a 8th level adventure to a 11th level adventure. THAT'S your power curve difference.</p><p></p><p>And, at the end of the day, the AD&D player hits 8th level in about the same amount of time as the 5e player hits 11th. It's simply a more granular system. You cannot compare one to the other directly without accounting for what level means IN that system.</p><p></p><p>Think about it, the giants in Steading of the Fire Giant look like this: </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Two good fireballs and that fight is over. That's an 8th level party facing this. And they aren't expected to lose this fight. </p><p></p><p>Now, I don't have the stats for that fight in the 5e version. But, considering a base hill giant in 5e has 102 HP, I'm going to guess that the 5e version is meant for a little higher level. Good grief, the base hill giant in 5e has almost THREE TIMES as many HP. Oh, and attack twice per round instead of once. For 3d6+5 damage vs 2d8. Hrm, the monster has three times as many HP, deals twice as much damage per hit and between bounded accuracy and a +8 attack bonus, probably hits twice as often.</p><p></p><p>And you wonder why the 5e version is three levels higher?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 7718825, member: 22779"] But, you're presuming that level=level across editions. That's simply not true. The power curve is completely different. Gaining levels in 1e is a huge power bump. The level curve is darn near logarithmic because the monsters don't scale. Think about it, outside of unique monsters, AD&D monsters top out at about 10 HD (outside of dinosaurs and a few others) and an AC of about -2. And that's for the toughest monsters in the game. (Again, excepting unique monsters) The overwhelming majority of monsters have positive AC's. The trick is, AD&D PC's don't really max out. AC's go down to -10 and it's fairly easy to achieve negative AC's. There's no difference particularly, between the HP of a 1-10 AD&D PC and a 5e PC. The 5e PC might have a bit more, but, not hugely more. And saving throws for AD&D PC's continuously improve. And then you start adding magic items into the mix. 1e was pretty free with magic items. Most treasure types gave a chance at multiple magic items. IOW, so what if my 5e PC gains levels faster? A 10th level AD&D PC is equivalent to a 15th level 5e PC relative to their prospective systems. There's a REASON that Against the Giants goes from being a 8th level adventure to a 11th level adventure. THAT'S your power curve difference. And, at the end of the day, the AD&D player hits 8th level in about the same amount of time as the 5e player hits 11th. It's simply a more granular system. You cannot compare one to the other directly without accounting for what level means IN that system. Think about it, the giants in Steading of the Fire Giant look like this: Two good fireballs and that fight is over. That's an 8th level party facing this. And they aren't expected to lose this fight. Now, I don't have the stats for that fight in the 5e version. But, considering a base hill giant in 5e has 102 HP, I'm going to guess that the 5e version is meant for a little higher level. Good grief, the base hill giant in 5e has almost THREE TIMES as many HP. Oh, and attack twice per round instead of once. For 3d6+5 damage vs 2d8. Hrm, the monster has three times as many HP, deals twice as much damage per hit and between bounded accuracy and a +8 attack bonus, probably hits twice as often. And you wonder why the 5e version is three levels higher? [/QUOTE]
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