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Message: <blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 6339682" data-attributes="member: 2067">Perhaps. I just think there's so MANY sneaky monsters in D&D (monsters that lurk in darkness, monsters that look like other things, monsters that blend into stone, monsters that sneak just like a thief -- check out how many monsters from the 1e MM modify surprise rolls or otherwise surprise characters!) that there's a high probability of encountering one in "normal play" (whatever that is). Even games of intrigue with humans involve assassins and poisons and traps and ambushes. And the consequences of failing a Perception check, especially at low levels, might be "Death." That's a lot of variables you're taking into your hands when you don't choose Perception proficiency.I could see games that don't use it very often, but I don't know that those games are very common.What would be interesting is to log each d20 roll made during a D&D game, what kind of roll it is, what its agency is, and the ultimate narrative effect of each roll. So you'd have, like, Perception Roll/Reactive/Success/Was not surprised; Wisdom Save/Reactive/Failure/Got Charmed for 1 rd; Acrobatics Check/Active/Success/Caught a Thief; etc.I think that's true -- players use it to confirm or deny their suspicions that an NPC is lying. Lying NPC's also often come across in NPC dialogue or DM body language as she's performing the role, and the effect of a lying NPC is often just "it's a different kind of challenge," so its vitality isn't what it could be. But it's got a use that's pretty unique.As far as it being unsatisfying...there's probably a few ways to modify it that'll make it a little more satisfying.First is the idea that Insight isn't a line-item check. You can't tell which statements are true and which are false, all you know is that the NPC is being deceptive and evasive and you probably shouldn't take her at her word. It's a reason not to trust, not a disproof of what she's saying.Another idea would be to put it behind a DM Gate to link it to the world a little better. In most cases, you can't make a <s>Perception</s>(ed: INSIGHT! Derp) check UNLESS your characters notice something "off" (such as an inconsistency or a nervous demeanor). Players must pay attention to your RP to note this, so a DM should be confident in their ability to RP some dishonesty. There essentially has to be some REASON you're making the Insight check, some bit of the character's demeanor you're trying to parse. You can't just make one on every character you're talking to.</blockquote>

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