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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Iosue" data-source="post: 9518951" data-attributes="member: 6680772">Let's now look at the Priest class group, and the "generalist" priest, the Cleric.Due to 2nd Edition's expansion of clerics to "specific mythoi", the first part of the Priest description explains that they are believers and advocates of a god from a particular mythos, and who intercedes and acts on behalf of others, and seeks to use powers to advance the beliefs of his mythos. Like in 1st Edition, they get d8 Hit Dice, and can use spells as well as weapons.The book provides 16 spheres of influence, which as far as I can tell, are completely new to 2nd Edition: All, Animal, Astral, Charm, Combat, Creation, Divination, Elemental, Guardian, Healing, Necromantic, Plant, Protection, Summoning, Sun, and Weather. Spheres of influence are distinct from schools of magic, which all Priest spells also belong to, which I imagine is for specialist wizards' bonus to saving throws from spells in their own school.Table 23 shows the Priest Experience Levels, with columns for the Cleric and Druid. The XP requirements are unchanged from 1st Edition. It's immediately followed by Table 24: Priest Spell Progression. This is identical to the 1st Edition cleric spell table, though one change is that druids now use this table rather than their own. Looking specifically at the cleric class, this is noted as the most common type of priest. A slight difference from 1st Edition is that clerics can now be of any alignment, whereas in 1st Edition a true Neutral cleric had to be a druid. The blue box outlining the conception of the cleric class draws comparisons with the religious knights of the Middle Ages: the Teutonic Knights, the Knights Templar, and the Hospitalers. The Song of Roland's Archbishop Turpin is specifically name-checked.Like in 1st Edition, clerics can wear any armor and use a shield, but are limited to blunt, bludgeoning weapons, because they are "reluctant to shed blood or spread violence." Certainly, nothing says "reluctance to shed blood" like a mace to the face.As far as spells go, clerics can use any sphere except for plant, animal, weather, and elemental spheres. These, of course, are where all the spells on the 1st Edition druid spell list went. 2nd Edition explicitly notes that clerics receive their spells as insight directly from their deity as a sign of and reward for their faith, and that they can be taken away if the cleric abuses their power. This is not in the 1st Edition Player's Handbook, but I gotta think that something like that is in the 1st Edition Dungeon Master's Guide. As in 1st Edition, at 8th Level, clerics get 20-200 followers, provided they have built a place of worship to their deity. In 2nd Edition, these are explicitly noted to be 0th-level soldiers. 1st Edition is agnostic to the make-up of the followers, saying only that some will be men-at-arms. 1st Edition is also more detailed on the kind of place of worship to be built: a building of 2,000 square feet in floor area with an altar, shrine, chapel, etc. 2nd Edition only says that the place of worship must be "of significant size."At 9th Level, clerics can establish a religious stronghold, such as a fortified abbey or secluded convent. The construction cost for this is half the normal price, due to official sanction of the stronghold and donated labor by the faithful. This also follows 1st Edition, though 1st Edition again specifies that it must contain a large temple, cathedral, or church of not less than 2,500 square feet on the ground floor. Also, in 1st Edition, the cleric can clear the surrounding area to get 9 sp/inhabitant every month from trade, taxation, and tithes. The cleric does not get this income in 2nd Edition. Both the 8th Level place of worship and the 9th Level stronghold can be established before reaching those levels, but the faithful followers do not come until 8th Level is reached, and the reduced cost to build the stronghold is available only after reaching 9th Level.One thing I thought interesting was how each book treated Turning undead. In 1st Edition, the PHB helpfully gives a list of the undead that can be turned. But the actual table for determining if the undead are turned is in the DMG. 2nd Edition doesn't put this table in the class description (unlike every edition of TSR-era D&D), but it is in the PHB, in the Combat chapter. So let us make a small digression.In 1st Edition, every level from 1st to 8th has its own column. Then there is one column is Levels 9-13, and then a final column for Levels 14+. 8th Level is the first level that covers every category, from Skeleton (weakest) to Special (strongest). In 2nd Edition, the higher levels are broken up: Level nine gets its own column (equal to Level 8 in 1st Edition), then there's a column for Levels 10-11, another for Levels 12-13, and then a final column for Levels 14+, which is the same as in 1st Edition. 2nd Edition's changes clean up some odd jumps in the 1st Edition table. Generally, the progression of the DC, if you will, for Turn Undead goes 20, 19, 16, 13, 10, 7, 4 (this is the number the cleric must roll on a d20 to turn the undead). This is generally followed in 1st Edition, except for big jumps at Level 4, Level 8, and Level 14. For example, this is the table to turn a Skeleton up to Level 4:<table style='width: 100%'><tr><td>Undead</td><td>Cleric Level 1</td><td>Cleric Level 2</td><td>Cleric Level 3</td><td>Cleric Level 4</td></tr><tr><td>Skeleton</td><td>10</td><td>7</td><td>4</td><td>T (automatic Turn)</td></tr></table>We'd expect a similar progression for Zombies, but instead it skips a stage at level 4, Turning Zombies automatically instead of requiring a roll of 4 or better:<table style='width: 100%'><tr><td>Undead</td><td>Cleric Level 1</td><td>Cleric Level 2</td><td>Cleric Level 3</td><td>Cleric Level 4</td></tr><tr><td>Zombie</td><td>13</td><td>10</td><td>7</td><td>T</td></tr></table>Likewise, the DC for Turning a Ghoul at Level 4 jumps from 10 to 4, instead of the expected 7. 2nd Edition smooths all this out, following the expected progression for all levels. This is a little bit of a nerf to clerics from levels 4-9. On the other hand, the jump from Level 13 to 14 is smoothed out with the additional columns for Levels 10-11 and 12-13. Here's 1st Edition for Liches and Special. Note that this is the point when both appear on the table:<table style='width: 100%'><tr><td>Undead</td><td>Cleric Level 8</td><td>Cleric Levels 9-13</td><td>Cleric Levels 14+</td></tr><tr><td>Lich</td><td>19</td><td>16</td><td>10</td></tr><tr><td>Special</td><td>20</td><td>19</td><td>13</td></tr></table>Here it is for 2nd Edition:<table style='width: 100%'><tr><td>Undead</td><td>Cleric Level 8</td><td>Cleric Level 9</td><td>Levels 10-11</td><td>Levels 12-13</td><td>Cleric Levels 14+</td></tr><tr><td>Lich</td><td>20</td><td>19</td><td>16</td><td>13</td><td>10</td></tr><tr><td>Special</td><td>--</td><td>20</td><td>19</td><td>16</td><td>13</td></tr></table>Is one better than the other? I suppose it could be argued that the jump at Levels 4, 8, and 14 make 1st Edition clerics better prepared for the higher level undead they will see. OTOH, I lean toward the 2nd Edition table, both for its easy-to-follow uniformity, but also because four levels of no improvement is rough, especially when it takes 225,000 XP to advance each of those levels. Some final notes on Turning. In 1st Edition, the Special row is for low-level demons and devils. Basically, any creature from the lower planes with AC worse than -5, less than 11 HD, or less than 66% magic resistance. However! When 2nd Edition was first published, there were no longer any demons and devils! The newly re-christened baatezu and tanar'ri would not appear until Planescape in 1994. So in 2nd Edition, Special became "unique undead, free-willed undead of the Negative Material Plane, certain Greater and Lesser Powers, and those undead that dwell in the outer planes."Next up, Priests of Specific Mythoi.</blockquote>

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