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<blockquote data-quote="MechaTarrasque" data-source="post: 6992312" data-attributes="member: 6801226"><p>I think it is the curse of the odd number editions that, outside of the Solar and maybe the Planetar, celestials are better support than combat. Conjure celestial is consistent with this: you aren't getting a really tough critter for a 7th level spell (and in theory you are pretty far behind, combatwise, using a 9th level spell for a CR 5 critter, although since we don't have any CR 9 elementals or fey (and not much in the way of CR 9 beasts), it is hard to compare to conjure elemental or conjure fey as a 9th level spell). Of course the celestials you get are chock full of utility/support so CC is still a really good spell. Likewise, I think they are trying to keep DM's from unintentionally making things too easy with planar ally...... I am not a big fan of conjure monster I-IX giving you 8 monsters per level (all good until you get MMII and "I wish I could summon one of them" kicks in), but at least it gave us some formidable celestials.</p><p></p><p>The long and the short of that is that the ki-rin is consistent with celestials in 5e, and that is probably how things will be until we get a Planescape AP (and maybe even then). The murderhoboes wandering around the Upper Planes are pretty safe until they run into a monstrosity (like a sphinx or naga), a good dragon, or worse yet said monstrosity/dragon hanging out with a celestial that can support them (somebody zap the unicorn before he heals the sphinx again).</p><p></p><p>{For the record, 2e had tougher celestials because they needed something to fill in Planescape, and in 4e, the angels were trying to kill you right along with the devils and demons.}</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="MechaTarrasque, post: 6992312, member: 6801226"] I think it is the curse of the odd number editions that, outside of the Solar and maybe the Planetar, celestials are better support than combat. Conjure celestial is consistent with this: you aren't getting a really tough critter for a 7th level spell (and in theory you are pretty far behind, combatwise, using a 9th level spell for a CR 5 critter, although since we don't have any CR 9 elementals or fey (and not much in the way of CR 9 beasts), it is hard to compare to conjure elemental or conjure fey as a 9th level spell). Of course the celestials you get are chock full of utility/support so CC is still a really good spell. Likewise, I think they are trying to keep DM's from unintentionally making things too easy with planar ally...... I am not a big fan of conjure monster I-IX giving you 8 monsters per level (all good until you get MMII and "I wish I could summon one of them" kicks in), but at least it gave us some formidable celestials. The long and the short of that is that the ki-rin is consistent with celestials in 5e, and that is probably how things will be until we get a Planescape AP (and maybe even then). The murderhoboes wandering around the Upper Planes are pretty safe until they run into a monstrosity (like a sphinx or naga), a good dragon, or worse yet said monstrosity/dragon hanging out with a celestial that can support them (somebody zap the unicorn before he heals the sphinx again). {For the record, 2e had tougher celestials because they needed something to fill in Planescape, and in 4e, the angels were trying to kill you right along with the devils and demons.} [/QUOTE]
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