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<blockquote data-quote="Inanity" data-source="post: 7978908" data-attributes="member: 7023541"><p>long and boring discussion to follow (well not boring to me but):</p><p></p><p>I would say nether case requires any 'spooky' entities; posit a force M (=magic). M is integral in producing effect E (causing THIS entity to have THOSE sorcerer powers) in condition C (spark)... Now, we can go about maybe determining MORE general and more interesting dynamical features of M in other conditions and in relation with other things; and mamybe even conctruct a more general (or fine-grained or specific or more robust) language used to explain more fundamentally why M does E in C. And we are on our way to a science...</p><p></p><p>Concerning local variaition in the perceptible phenomenon: it seemingly occurs; This region of water will be this dense at these temps/pressures; just becasue a volume of water is liguid given conditions C doesnt mean the laws of nature have suddenly STOPPED WORKING (or that there is NOT A MORE GENERAL THEORY THAT EXPLAINS THIS PHENOMENON AND THAT IS constructed to be general and universally applicable and necessarily 'active' or 'operative')!</p><p></p><p>similarly, just because some regions of space or of the plenum or Aether (or whatever) have 'no magic' whatever that means (or that region of water has no frozenness, whatever that means) doesnt mean the laws of magic are not a (maybe merely proper) subset of the laws of nature(=physics)... It coud be that those magicky tendrils are such that under conditions C they have effect N (null magic); normally water provides sustenance, but if cyanid is added then well... I imagine we can come up with an indefinitely many relevantly analagous (yet maybe appropriately dfferent) cases attempting o illustrate the following: Regions of Null magic does not indicate that the laws of magic are not a subset of the laws of nature!</p><p></p><p>DM fiat aside This discussion is already in a weird conceptual space. For</p><p>(i) we are trying to figure out the true metaphysics of worlds we create</p><p>(ii)but from theperspective of thinkers FROM THOSE WORLDS, what would be reasonable for THEM to think not for US TO STIPLUATE;</p><p>(iii) yet OUR EVIDENCE consists of CREATE/stipulated RULES;</p><p>What metaphysic IS AT LEAST CONSISTENT WITH RAW? (or RAI; odd query really) is my guiding quetion in this context.. I maintain that a physicalism is consistent with RAW (that is a claim that many would deny; as many think souls are both (i) assumed to exist and (ii) cannot be given a coherent physical interpretation...</p><p></p><p>Even despite the evidece(astral projections divine interventions) I think a philosopher of Greyhawk could maintain a reasonable phyiscalism (think planescape; where any of the factions outright crazy or flippant n the face of the PERCEIVED evidence; i.e. were any being bad empirical researchers? I say no[t necessarily]...</p><p></p><p>In short it could be that null magic regions is just how the laws of physics work; further, we can point to numerous cases IN THE REAL WORLD, where local variation is accepted as not problematic for theories that maintain that the laws of nature are universal and generally applicable....</p><p></p><p>I imagine most havent made it this far... wanting to play some DnD <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Inanity, post: 7978908, member: 7023541"] long and boring discussion to follow (well not boring to me but): I would say nether case requires any 'spooky' entities; posit a force M (=magic). M is integral in producing effect E (causing THIS entity to have THOSE sorcerer powers) in condition C (spark)... Now, we can go about maybe determining MORE general and more interesting dynamical features of M in other conditions and in relation with other things; and mamybe even conctruct a more general (or fine-grained or specific or more robust) language used to explain more fundamentally why M does E in C. And we are on our way to a science... Concerning local variaition in the perceptible phenomenon: it seemingly occurs; This region of water will be this dense at these temps/pressures; just becasue a volume of water is liguid given conditions C doesnt mean the laws of nature have suddenly STOPPED WORKING (or that there is NOT A MORE GENERAL THEORY THAT EXPLAINS THIS PHENOMENON AND THAT IS constructed to be general and universally applicable and necessarily 'active' or 'operative')! similarly, just because some regions of space or of the plenum or Aether (or whatever) have 'no magic' whatever that means (or that region of water has no frozenness, whatever that means) doesnt mean the laws of magic are not a (maybe merely proper) subset of the laws of nature(=physics)... It coud be that those magicky tendrils are such that under conditions C they have effect N (null magic); normally water provides sustenance, but if cyanid is added then well... I imagine we can come up with an indefinitely many relevantly analagous (yet maybe appropriately dfferent) cases attempting o illustrate the following: Regions of Null magic does not indicate that the laws of magic are not a subset of the laws of nature! DM fiat aside This discussion is already in a weird conceptual space. For (i) we are trying to figure out the true metaphysics of worlds we create (ii)but from theperspective of thinkers FROM THOSE WORLDS, what would be reasonable for THEM to think not for US TO STIPLUATE; (iii) yet OUR EVIDENCE consists of CREATE/stipulated RULES; What metaphysic IS AT LEAST CONSISTENT WITH RAW? (or RAI; odd query really) is my guiding quetion in this context.. I maintain that a physicalism is consistent with RAW (that is a claim that many would deny; as many think souls are both (i) assumed to exist and (ii) cannot be given a coherent physical interpretation... Even despite the evidece(astral projections divine interventions) I think a philosopher of Greyhawk could maintain a reasonable phyiscalism (think planescape; where any of the factions outright crazy or flippant n the face of the PERCEIVED evidence; i.e. were any being bad empirical researchers? I say no[t necessarily]... In short it could be that null magic regions is just how the laws of physics work; further, we can point to numerous cases IN THE REAL WORLD, where local variation is accepted as not problematic for theories that maintain that the laws of nature are universal and generally applicable.... I imagine most havent made it this far... wanting to play some DnD :) [/QUOTE]
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