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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 9226378" data-attributes="member: 82106">I'd just point out that there ARE good answers for this. So, for instance Dungeon World spell casting always involves risk. The Wizard has a light cantrip which acts like a pretty-much-ever-burning torch, BUT you have to cast it! On a 7-9 there's a consequence. Now, with a +3 INT you will get 10+ on a 7, so it isn't THAT dangerous, and the 'forget this spell until you rememorize' is often going to be no consequence at all, but in that game the GM is always free to say "well, hard move, I take away your light!" so its not a 100% reliable source of light. 6- isn't specified for spell casting, so that's also GM hard move territory.Again, this has been pretty much dealt with by DW in the same way. In 4e at-wills are OK, and you can get by with them most of the time, but if you want a large effect, you will need to cast encounter or daily spells, or even delve into rituals. Sure, you can always have Fire Bolt on hand, but then you don't have Cloud of Daggers, or one of the other useful at-wills. Everything is a trade off...That's just a balance that EGG/DA struck in their early play. It isn't even the only paradigm in classic D&D, let alone modern D&D.Yet the same people who complain about 4e powers don't generally complain about the same perpetual light problem in 5e, where it is at least equally acute. Now, 4e indeed makes it easy to get permanent light sources, you can JUST BUY ONE, but again that same item, Sun Rod, was equipment in 3e also. I think the point is, modern D&D just isn't really about old school dungeon crawling. I tend to like the idea of problematic light myself, it can have atmospheric and tactical fun uses, but it isn't like its the big stick in my bag of tricks. 4e is not, nor was 3e, nor is 5e, a good game for running OSR-style DC. Every one of those games inherently assumes PCs can mostly take care of the mundane stuff. I mean, food, 4e has a rudimentary starvation rule which the GM can choose to employ, probably as an SC failure consequence or as a 'stick' to put pressure on the PCs. Its not like 1e where ration use is carefully documented and hunger/thirst kick in at specific points, etc. MAYBE you could play 4e that way, possibly. The rules don't really abolish older-style challenge play of that sort, but it probably won't be the most fun way to do it in 4e. 5e is sadly lost here, it lacks both the framework to do it old-school, but nor does it have 4e's more story-driven infrastructure with things like SCs. Effectively in 5e starvation is just an annoyance that the GM could impose on the players!</blockquote>

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