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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 9304629" data-attributes="member: 82106">There's no mockery here. The fact that you cannot even recognize logic when it stares you in the face simply is what it is. It is impossible for actual mundane humans, even if we grant them the levels of skill of a Miyamoto Musashi or whatever, to fight things with elephantine and greater strength. Where is the mockery here? D&amp;D allows for this, so it is IPSO FACTO, no mockery, just logic, portraying a fantastical situation which is beyond the realm of natural law! This is EXACTLY what is happening here!I've never insulted anyone in any of the ways you are stating. I simply applied logic to the statements made and a basic analysis of natural laws to draw a pretty much incontrovertible conclusion that, indeed, D&amp;D fighters operate at a level that can only be interpreted as fantastical. You stubbornly replied with, basically, Naaaah! Ain't so! I mean, again, if you want to rhetorically redefine the word 'magical' to make your argument work, that's great, but it won't change anything.Lets put it this way. Regardless of any other editions of D&amp;D, 4e literally states flat out that Martial Power is &quot;stand(s) well beyond the capabilities of ordinary mortals.&quot; I don't think it is unreasonable, and PHB1 P54 supports this, that martial exploits are not spell casting, but it does call Martial a 'power source'. Frankly it strikes me as being very much in keeping with notions of things like Ki (which at one point was considered as a possible separate power source, but was dropped). 4e pointedly doesn't define the term 'magic' and famously it is perfectly possible for the Arcana skill to detect effects created using Martial exploits (though there are rather few exploits that are conjurations or zones). Honestly, with 4e, the whole argument about what is or is not 'magic' is pretty fraught! Even the Detect Magic function of Arcana doesn't actually try to define the term.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 9304629, member: 82106"] There's no mockery here. The fact that you cannot even recognize logic when it stares you in the face simply is what it is. It is impossible for actual mundane humans, even if we grant them the levels of skill of a Miyamoto Musashi or whatever, to fight things with elephantine and greater strength. Where is the mockery here? D&D allows for this, so it is IPSO FACTO, no mockery, just logic, portraying a fantastical situation which is beyond the realm of natural law! This is EXACTLY what is happening here! I've never insulted anyone in any of the ways you are stating. I simply applied logic to the statements made and a basic analysis of natural laws to draw a pretty much incontrovertible conclusion that, indeed, D&D fighters operate at a level that can only be interpreted as fantastical. You stubbornly replied with, basically, Naaaah! Ain't so! I mean, again, if you want to rhetorically redefine the word 'magical' to make your argument work, that's great, but it won't change anything. Lets put it this way. Regardless of any other editions of D&D, 4e literally states flat out that Martial Power is "stand(s) well beyond the capabilities of ordinary mortals." I don't think it is unreasonable, and PHB1 P54 supports this, that martial exploits are not spell casting, but it does call Martial a 'power source'. Frankly it strikes me as being very much in keeping with notions of things like Ki (which at one point was considered as a possible separate power source, but was dropped). 4e pointedly doesn't define the term 'magic' and famously it is perfectly possible for the Arcana skill to detect effects created using Martial exploits (though there are rather few exploits that are conjurations or zones). Honestly, with 4e, the whole argument about what is or is not 'magic' is pretty fraught! Even the Detect Magic function of Arcana doesn't actually try to define the term. [/QUOTE]

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