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Message: <blockquote data-quote="THEMNGMNT" data-source="post: 8219461" data-attributes="member: 6809274">I'm just wrapping up a 20th level campaign. Here are my observations, for what it's worth.So...what do we mean by "high level play"? I propose 13th level, when spells like Plane Shift and Resurrection change some fundamental assumptions about the nature of the game.I've found that 17th to 20th level zip by in the blink of an eye. About as fast as levels 1 to 5. From a storytelling standpoint, you need to move quickly to wrap up loose threads and deliver the big climax (or three). It is not the time to introduce new challenges. Conversely, this means that by level 16 you want to resolve personal PC stories and put them at the pinnacle of their profession. They should have gotten revenge for their parent's murder, become high priest of the reconsecrated temple, unlocked the mysteries of the arcane grimoire, etc. Tier 4 is where they put those resources to work.When it comes to encounter building, these are the challenges I've discovered:Details! Counting squares for a 30 foot move feels kind of crappy in Tier 4. I've started handwaving distances. Actually, I've started handwaving most details and being loose with the action economy. It really doesn't matter if you break the game when you only have 10 sessions left and Tiamat is flaming you with 5 breath weapons attacks each round.Maps! Most maps from pre-published adventures have a lot of 10 foot corridors and 20x20 rooms. They're not epic. Honestly, they're not that great even at low levels, and at higher levels they become simply unacceptable. Since I'm not the guy to make my own maps, I've started pulling pics of epic fantasy art to frame the action and inspire my players to go big.Minions! Minions are important to make Tier 4 characters feel suitably epic. 5E doesn't have minions and their intended formula ("just use lower CR monsters") doesn't really work...and for sure doesn't work in Tier 4. Low CR monsters have hit bonuses that are too small to hit and do too little damage. High CR monsters have too many hit points. Even at high levels, most martials only do about 20hp damage per hit (with abilities to spike that). This means that any creature with more than 20 hit points takes more than a single hit to drop....and if it can take more than one hit, it's not a minion. I've started developing some mini stat blocks for minions in each Tier that I will trial in my next campaign. Basically, Tier 4 minions need the HP and AC of a CR 1 monster with the to hit and damage numbers of a CR 13 monster.Bosses! Boss monster design is inconsistent. CR 25 Bel wrecked my party (twice). CR 26 Zariel did not. Most bosses simply need to output more damage--they need to hit harder and more often. Legendary Actions and Legendary Resistances are a must. I'm also toying with "Legendary Attacks" that autohit for maximum damage and ignore immunities. That should put the fear of God into players. Bosses also need minions to divide the PCs attention. And terrain becomes important, too. Terrain is a big deal for keeping battles dynamic. I've had a very steep learning curve on terrain and it'll definitely be a focus of mine in future campaigns.Overall I've enjoyed Tier 4 play. The core system math holds up even at high levels. But the DM needs a few more tools in the box to keep climactic encounters sufficiently exciting.My apologies for overusing the word "epic".</blockquote>

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