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<blockquote data-quote="Jacob Lewis" data-source="post: 9887944" data-attributes="member: 6667921"><p>Likewise.</p><p></p><p>Sure! First, I don't disagree with that approach. I think it is how it should be handled, regardless if the game has rules and mechanics to support you doing it. But I do feel that a lot of systems fall short in this area, leaving it to the GMs to compensate for what I feel is missing.</p><p></p><p>What happens when the GM has to adjudicate something that one of the players feel is unfair or punitive? If it's ts not in the rules or the guidelines, then the GM may need to stop everything to justify their decision because the system doesn't back them up. That is essentially the game offloading more work and responsibility onto the group that could be mitigated with better design or structure.</p><p></p><p>As far as what I think is a good design or approach is, I don't know yet because I haven't seen it, but it's not what you envision (pushing buttons?). That's just rubbish. None of us want that. </p><p></p><p>But I have been working on some ideas of my own, and the best solutions I could come up with required building a system from the ground up. That's all I'm going to say about that. I can't really explain the parts without explaining how the whole thing works, and I don't want to expose that can of worms here.</p><p></p><p>What I can say is that I have been thinking a lot about system designs and approaches that, frankly, have gone unchallenged for so long. We've grown accustomed to accepting standards and expectations established decades ago are still the primary model used by everyone else. And it is really hard to iamagine anything outside of these norms because we rarely ever see it. Even if we do, many people are not interested in new or different, especially if it requires work or effort or getting out of their comfort. That's not directed at anyone, just generally speaking.</p><p></p><p>I could <em>try</em> to explain the relevant parts of what I figured out for myself, but they work because I created a system around it. I honestly don't know how (or if) those ideas would work in existing systems built around different approaches. But that is kinda why I am here discussing the topic: to see if it is even possible to find better solutions for existing systems, or if systems just need to change their approach.</p><p></p><p>Apologies for just rambling and not providing any real answers. I'm just processing with a lot of dancing thoughts. So let me ask you this: aside from adding consequences for a failed check, is there anything else you do to make skill checks more interesting for your players? Any ideas you borrow from other systems, or invent your own? Do you feel anything is missing or would be better if included to keep every player engaged and invested regardless who is rolling the dice?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Jacob Lewis, post: 9887944, member: 6667921"] Likewise. Sure! First, I don't disagree with that approach. I think it is how it should be handled, regardless if the game has rules and mechanics to support you doing it. But I do feel that a lot of systems fall short in this area, leaving it to the GMs to compensate for what I feel is missing. What happens when the GM has to adjudicate something that one of the players feel is unfair or punitive? If it's ts not in the rules or the guidelines, then the GM may need to stop everything to justify their decision because the system doesn't back them up. That is essentially the game offloading more work and responsibility onto the group that could be mitigated with better design or structure. As far as what I think is a good design or approach is, I don't know yet because I haven't seen it, but it's not what you envision (pushing buttons?). That's just rubbish. None of us want that. But I have been working on some ideas of my own, and the best solutions I could come up with required building a system from the ground up. That's all I'm going to say about that. I can't really explain the parts without explaining how the whole thing works, and I don't want to expose that can of worms here. What I can say is that I have been thinking a lot about system designs and approaches that, frankly, have gone unchallenged for so long. We've grown accustomed to accepting standards and expectations established decades ago are still the primary model used by everyone else. And it is really hard to iamagine anything outside of these norms because we rarely ever see it. Even if we do, many people are not interested in new or different, especially if it requires work or effort or getting out of their comfort. That's not directed at anyone, just generally speaking. I could [I]try[/I] to explain the relevant parts of what I figured out for myself, but they work because I created a system around it. I honestly don't know how (or if) those ideas would work in existing systems built around different approaches. But that is kinda why I am here discussing the topic: to see if it is even possible to find better solutions for existing systems, or if systems just need to change their approach. Apologies for just rambling and not providing any real answers. I'm just processing with a lot of dancing thoughts. So let me ask you this: aside from adding consequences for a failed check, is there anything else you do to make skill checks more interesting for your players? Any ideas you borrow from other systems, or invent your own? Do you feel anything is missing or would be better if included to keep every player engaged and invested regardless who is rolling the dice? [/QUOTE]
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