Let's talk about HARP

[Narfellus]

Per several suggestions yesterday, i downloaded the free HARP Lite. Now, after perusing it last night I have several things to say, and wanted to see what anyone else thought. First, i was a little thrown off by the initial distribution of skill ranks and bonuses. At the core, the system looks a lot like DnD, but on a percentile base. The most drastic change i saw was the skill-based magic, which i admit i like. Do you think one could easily strip that out and port to d20? Come to think of it, Green Ronin's Complete Psychic might have already done something similar. There are TONS of mage and cleric spells that can be recreated with Psychic powers and a little creativity.

 

[Henry]

For that matter, Star Wars and Blue Rose have essentially done the same thing, already. Their magic systems are skill and feat-based (I know it's so with SW, but I can't speak with authority on BR, since I don't yet own it) with no problems.

If you have more specific HARP questions, I'd retitle the thread to put Rasyr's name in it to attract his attention, since he wrote it. However, it already says HARP, so if he's reading the boards today, he'll likely be along momentarily.

 

[Assenpfeffer]

Per several suggestions yesterday, i downloaded the free HARP Lite. Now, after perusing it last night I have several things to say, and wanted to see what anyone else thought. First, i was a little thrown off by the initial distribution of skill ranks and bonuses. At the core, the system looks a lot like DnD, but on a percentile base.

It'd be worth pointing out that HARP is derived from Rolemaster, which incorporated many of the features of D&D3.x over a decade earlier. To me, D&D3.x looks a lot like Rolemaster with a d20 base.

The most drastic change i saw was the skill-based magic, which i admit i like. Do you think one could easily strip that out and port to d20? Come to think of it, Green Ronin's Complete Psychic might have already done something similar. There are TONS of mage and cleric spells that can be recreated with Psychic powers and a little creativity.

It's certainly possible. You could very easily say that there's a skill for each magical area (spell list in Rolemaster) and hand additional skill points to the Wizard, Cleric, etc. to spend on those new skills. More questions would arise with the point-based spallcasting system (in both HARP and Rolemaster) and spell scalability (in HARP.) But it could certainly be done without (I think) all that much trouble.

 

[Rasyr]

If you have more specific HARP questions, I'd retitle the thread to put Rasyr's name in it to attract his attention, since he wrote it. However, it already says HARP, so if he's reading the boards today, he'll likely be along momentarily.

Well, I normally would not have checked the boards again for a few more hours yet, however, this thread was specifically brought to my attention in the form of an email.


Narfellus - As Assenpfeffer says, HARP is primarily based upon Rolemaster, and many of the things in HARP were introduced over the course of the past 20+ years (talents, training packages, etc..). Since at least one of the three designers of 3.x spent a number of years working for the old ICE, I don't doubt you find similaities (even though the RM-related author has denied it).

The biggest problem with stripping out the HARP magic system for d20 is that D&D has noplace near enough skill points that would be required for mages to learn spells.

However, having said that, I have also, some time ago, done up a few documents and such on how to play HARP using a twenty-sided die rather than the d100 it was designed for.

You can find those documents in a zip file here --> http://www.harphq.com/webextras.htm

And if you have any more questions, feel free to ask and I will answer them as soon as I can.

 

[Breakdaddy]

... (I know it's so with SW, but I can't speak with authority on BR, since I don't yet own it)...

YET? Henry, you are an even bigger book whore than *I* am, and that is an accomplishment indeed.

 

[der_kluge]

So you want the spell slot system, and vancian magic ported over to HARP? Or, are you trying to apply the concept of skill-based magic to d20?

I suppose you could do it, but the fundamental profession of wizard (or any spellcaster) is kind of balanced with regards to having skill points being used for ranks for the purpose of buying power point development and magic spells.

The idea is a sound one, and you could do it in d20, but it would take a lot of work. In HARP, understand that there is a minimum skill rank requirement for a spell, and to cast it requires that many power points. You can *meta-magic* the spell by expending additional power points based on the descriptions in the specific spell. You could recreate that kind of thing in d20, but to do so would require you to:
- define a minimum skill rank requirement for each spell in the PHB
- define the meta-magic costs for each of those spells
- convert the spell progression chart into some number of skill ranks
- Grant an equivalent bonus to the wizard as bonus skill ranks which he can spend directly on spells.

The problem with that last one is that the growth isn't linear; it grows. So you couldn't say, just grant a base of 10 ranks (pulling a number outta my butt) every level, because at 20th level, 10 ranks won't be enough to gain any new spell effects. It'd have to be some growth (to follow the d20 design philosophy) based on the character level. So, something like 5 ranks x level, every level to compensate.

Ugh, that could get hairy.

 

[Narfellus]

Thanks All. I'll take a look at that d20 conversion. Primarily, i was wanting to change 3.x Magic to a Skill System. Obviously, magic users would need extra points to spend solely on Magic. I suppose these could be based on race, feats, intelligence, charisma, or other appropriate sources.

 

[Rasyr]

You might want to also take a peek over in this thread... http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=121982

 

[Henry]

YET? Henry, you are an even bigger book whore than *I* am, and that is an accomplishment indeed.

On the contrary, my good Breakdaddy, I have known some prodigious book-whores in my day, and I do not come CLOSE.

Now, if that C&C, Grim Tales, & Conan would come in...

 

[Rasyr]

So you want the spell slot system, and vancian magic ported over to HARP? Or, are you trying to apply the concept of skill-based magic to d20?

I suppose you could do it, but the fundamental profession of wizard (or any spellcaster) is kind of balanced with regards to having skill points being used for ranks for the purpose of buying power point development and magic spells.

The idea is a sound one, and you could do it in d20, but it would take a lot of work. In HARP, understand that there is a minimum skill rank requirement for a spell, and to cast it requires that many power points. You can *meta-magic* the spell by expending additional power points based on the descriptions in the specific spell. You could recreate that kind of thing in d20, but to do so would require you to:
- define a minimum skill rank requirement for each spell in the PHB
- define the meta-magic costs for each of those spells
- convert the spell progression chart into some number of skill ranks
- Grant an equivalent bonus to the wizard as bonus skill ranks which he can spend directly on spells.

Hmm... interesting idea....

If I ever get any free time, I'll have to think up a way of implementing it....