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<blockquote data-quote="Wyrmshadows" data-source="post: 4443882" data-attributes="member: 56166">LOL&nbsp;This is the problem I have with minions. Essentially, minions presume a fundamental disconnect between the PCs and the reality and the game world. Or more accurately, that the world, even the nature of reality in the game world, revolves around the PCs.&nbsp;In every version of D&amp;D until now, a monster with 50hp had 50hp whether it was fighting the 2nd level town guard or the 12th level PCs. That's because it was considered that because HPs are a representation of luck, stamina, the ability to absorb physical punishment, etc. and as such don't go into some sort of quantum flux just because the PCs show up.&nbsp;Player: &quot;Does a minion fall in the forest make a sound if there is no PC to hear?&quot;&nbsp;DM: &quot;Ah, but the premise of your question is flawed because without a PC to hear, there is no minion to fall.&quot;&nbsp;Player: <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f615.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":confused:" title="Confused&nbsp; &nbsp; :confused:"&nbsp; data-smilie="5"data-shortname=":confused:" />&nbsp;I do understand minions and I understand them as being representative of 4e's extremely gamist approach to design. IMC the word does exist outside my PCs and a terrible 15th level demon capable of ravaging an entire town in a narrative sense will not be turning into a 1hp soap bubble once the PCs arrive to save the day. If you want your PC to be a real badass, kill some critters with actual HPs not mobs of drones designed to make your PC look good. The whole minion thing smacks of a cheap setup to make people look, mechanically and narratively, more potent than they actually are.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Wyrmshadows</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Wyrmshadows, post: 4443882, member: 56166"] LOL This is the problem I have with minions. Essentially, minions presume a fundamental disconnect between the PCs and the reality and the game world. Or more accurately, that the world, even the nature of reality in the game world, revolves around the PCs. In every version of D&D until now, a monster with 50hp had 50hp whether it was fighting the 2nd level town guard or the 12th level PCs. That's because it was considered that because HPs are a representation of luck, stamina, the ability to absorb physical punishment, etc. and as such don't go into some sort of quantum flux just because the PCs show up. [B]Player: [/B][I]"Does a minion fall in the forest make a sound if there is no PC to hear?"[/I] [B]DM:[/B] [I]"Ah, but the premise of your question is flawed because without a PC to hear, there is no minion to fall."[/I] [B]Player:[/B] :confused: I do understand minions and I understand them as being representative of 4e's extremely gamist approach to design. IMC the word does exist outside my PCs and a terrible 15th level demon capable of ravaging an entire town in a narrative sense will not be turning into a 1hp soap bubble once the PCs arrive to save the day. If you want your PC to be a real badass, kill some critters with actual HPs not mobs of drones designed to make your PC look good. The whole minion thing smacks of a cheap setup to make people look, mechanically and narratively, more potent than they actually are. Wyrmshadows [/QUOTE]

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