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<blockquote data-quote="Wyrmshadows" data-source="post: 4444938" data-attributes="member: 56166">This.&nbsp;It is massively inconsistant that a creature's relative strength is determined by strength of the opposition. Throughout the history of D&amp;D (and its offshoots in the 3.5e era) a 10HD monster with 45hp is consistantly a 10HD monster with 45hp. No matter who was fighting this beast, its stats stayed the same. This is consistancy and believability.&nbsp;When the heroes encounter this creature it should, no matter what their level, still be a 10HD monster with 45hp. This creature doesn't level up or down because of the level of its enemies. HPs are an abstraction but they have always been a consistant abstraction where one could reliably, at a glance, determine a creature's relative strength against another creature (Wow! This things got 569hp...he's tough) and who would likely win by simply eyeballing the stats.&nbsp;Now, not so much.&nbsp;A 20th level minion doesn't have a mechanical reality until PCs engage it and IMO that is the problem. A 20th level minion, a 20th level creature (another abstraction that throughout the history of D&amp;D has been a good barometer of relative objective power) can be one shot killed by a punch in the face, a staff to the ribs, a halfling's dagger in the ankle or any other number of preposterous circumstances that might be explainable as a unique circumstance but are now potentially regular realities. &nbsp;Minions literally rely on DMs being good narrators to make any sense of their reality whatsoever. Without a good DM narrating them well, especially in the case of gigantic, powerful minions (an oxymoron like jumbo shrimp) would make Kill Bill scenes seem entirely believable. &nbsp;A 10th level wizard couldn't one shot a 4th level brute with a staff but that same wizard could, if he wanted to, do this to a 10th level minion.&nbsp;The problem with minions is that though they can certainly be used appropriately... such as a mob of mooks slaughtered by Conan...there are plenty of opportunities for D&amp;D combats to become utter cartoons that are more silly than heroic.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Wyrmshadows</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Wyrmshadows, post: 4444938, member: 56166"] This. It is massively inconsistant that a creature's relative strength is determined by strength of the opposition. Throughout the history of D&D (and its offshoots in the 3.5e era) a 10HD monster with 45hp is consistantly a 10HD monster with 45hp. No matter who was fighting this beast, its stats stayed the same. This is consistancy and believability. When the heroes encounter this creature it should, no matter what their level, still be a 10HD monster with 45hp. This creature doesn't level up or down because of the level of its enemies. HPs are an abstraction but they have always been a consistant abstraction where one could reliably, at a glance, determine a creature's relative strength against another creature (Wow! This things got 569hp...he's tough) and who would likely win by simply eyeballing the stats. Now, not so much. A 20th level minion doesn't have a mechanical reality until PCs engage it and IMO that is the problem. A 20th level minion, a 20th level creature (another abstraction that throughout the history of D&D has been a good barometer of relative objective power) can be one shot killed by a punch in the face, a staff to the ribs, a halfling's dagger in the ankle or any other number of preposterous circumstances that might be explainable as a unique circumstance but are now potentially regular realities. Minions literally rely on DMs being good narrators to make any sense of their reality whatsoever. Without a good DM narrating them well, especially in the case of gigantic, powerful minions (an oxymoron like jumbo shrimp) would make Kill Bill scenes seem entirely believable. A 10th level wizard couldn't one shot a 4th level brute with a staff but that same wizard could, if he wanted to, do this to a 10th level minion. The problem with minions is that though they can certainly be used appropriately... such as a mob of mooks slaughtered by Conan...there are plenty of opportunities for D&D combats to become utter cartoons that are more silly than heroic. Wyrmshadows [/QUOTE]

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