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<blockquote data-quote="Engilbrand" data-source="post: 4444955" data-attributes="member: 44184">Irda, I was being facetious. I asked if guards roll Perception before PCs ever enter into it. Your example uses the guards after the PCs are a part of it. In that case, it definitely makes sense to roll for the guards. They might become a part of the action. Rolling before PCs are ever on the scene, though, could lead to one caught thief. How many assassination attempts do you roll to confirm before the PCs show up to the area? Probably none. The king was either assassinated, or there was an attempt. It depends on what you want to do. When it comes to the guards and the thief, guards are probably either chasing or not. I doubt people roll to see if the hypothetical guards saw the hypothetical thief before the real PCs came on the scene.On minions: The key is to remember that everything needs to be used as it's supposed to be. You can purposely screw things up and play a dagger throwing Paladin who refuses to heal (as someone mentioned a month or so back), but then the problems aren't with the system, they're with the player. If someone says, &quot;I don't like have classes and a d20.&quot; I wouldn't tell them to figure out some houserules. I'd tell them to play a different game. They don't want this system. I wouldn't ask a brain surgeon what's wrong with my knee. The 4th edition system is set up to work a certain way and is PURPOSELY not consistent. If you want consistency, you expect something that 4th edition isn't set up for. While minions have &quot;1 hit point&quot;, the better rule is as it's spelled out in the book. &quot;They die if they take damage from a successful hit.&quot; That's all that's important.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Engilbrand, post: 4444955, member: 44184"] Irda, I was being facetious. I asked if guards roll Perception before PCs ever enter into it. Your example uses the guards after the PCs are a part of it. In that case, it definitely makes sense to roll for the guards. They might become a part of the action. Rolling before PCs are ever on the scene, though, could lead to one caught thief. How many assassination attempts do you roll to confirm before the PCs show up to the area? Probably none. The king was either assassinated, or there was an attempt. It depends on what you want to do. When it comes to the guards and the thief, guards are probably either chasing or not. I doubt people roll to see if the hypothetical guards saw the hypothetical thief before the real PCs came on the scene. On minions: The key is to remember that everything needs to be used as it's supposed to be. You can purposely screw things up and play a dagger throwing Paladin who refuses to heal (as someone mentioned a month or so back), but then the problems aren't with the system, they're with the player. If someone says, "I don't like have classes and a d20." I wouldn't tell them to figure out some houserules. I'd tell them to play a different game. They don't want this system. I wouldn't ask a brain surgeon what's wrong with my knee. The 4th edition system is set up to work a certain way and is PURPOSELY not consistent. If you want consistency, you expect something that 4th edition isn't set up for. While minions have "1 hit point", the better rule is as it's spelled out in the book. "They die if they take damage from a successful hit." That's all that's important. [/QUOTE]

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