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<blockquote data-quote="D'karr" data-source="post: 4445417" data-attributes="member: 336">Since we are talking about 4e minions the reference to 1e creatures is at most tangential.There were quite a bit of low level threats in 1e-3e that could kill 1st level adventurers in one good hit.&nbsp; I ran Keep of the Borderlands more than once and the kill ratio on that adventure was quite high.&nbsp; In 4e, the single &quot;good hit wonders&quot; have been significantly reduced, much like the save or die effects.&nbsp; Though some traps come pretty close.&nbsp; According to the &quot;rules&quot;, I can also throw an overwhelming challenge at the PCs.&nbsp; Is that appropriate?&nbsp; That is for the DM to decide.&nbsp; If that is the tool he needs, then that is the tool he uses.&nbsp; But my point is that Adventurers are not the &quot;run of the mill&quot; farmers.&nbsp; And I still have not seen this cat that is supposed to take them on.&nbsp; PCs are not minions so my point about the use of the right tool, in 4e, is still the same.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="D'karr, post: 4445417, member: 336"] Since we are talking about 4e minions the reference to 1e creatures is at most tangential. There were quite a bit of low level threats in 1e-3e that could kill 1st level adventurers in one good hit. I ran Keep of the Borderlands more than once and the kill ratio on that adventure was quite high. In 4e, the single "good hit wonders" have been significantly reduced, much like the save or die effects. Though some traps come pretty close. According to the "rules", I can also throw an overwhelming challenge at the PCs. Is that appropriate? That is for the DM to decide. If that is the tool he needs, then that is the tool he uses. But my point is that Adventurers are not the "run of the mill" farmers. And I still have not seen this cat that is supposed to take them on. PCs are not minions so my point about the use of the right tool, in 4e, is still the same. [/QUOTE]

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