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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Crimson Longinus" data-source="post: 9853359" data-attributes="member: 7025508">Sure, but the character does not need to decide to use their "good at avoiding detection" they just are that and is is not spent once used. So the decision making process of the player and character regarding this is pretty much completely diverged. So to me this makes the player choice to use it rather meta.I don't know why you wouldn't, but when I earlier said me and my group consider such things I was told it was against living the scoundrel life!I meant in broad sense. They're a gamey abstraction. Not that they are used for similar purposes.Sure, some level is. And I am not even saying it is bad per se. Like despite all the arguments over hit points they seem to function and have survived for decades. But I think in general such abstractions do make the connection between the fiction and the rules weaker and thus easily lead to the players thinking in terms of rules. Which again is not necessarily a bad thing, but it is a thing.I definitely do think Blades does this. And a lot actually. Like the whole basic structure of the game of having different distinct phases in which certain actions are siloed to and that must follow in certain order is gamey as hell. And I think the stress management is very gamey. Special armours definitely. A lot of things. And these are not automatically bad, and for example the phase structure and the downtime actions are very important for the games flow. But it most definitely is not fiction first. I think that with stress management resistances and clocks the abstraction is such, that the decision making process of the player and character become pretty diverged. Yes, they represent the things you mention, but to me it definitely feels more like post hoc rationalisation. I feel that certain things in Blades come very close to this. You obviously do not agree but, I think that for example using special armour is pretty much this and the stress management is rather close too.Sure, agreed!</blockquote>

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