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<blockquote data-quote="DEFCON 1" data-source="post: 7064098" data-attributes="member: 7006"><p>One of the biggest reasons why the Tomb of Horrors has never been as deadly in any of the 3E, 4E or 5E versions compared to the original is simply due to the change in DMing style with the introduction of skills. Which has been pretty much true for all trap-based encounters.</p><p></p><p>Back in the day, the prototypical methodology for most DMs would be to recite the boxed text or narrate casually what was list in any particular room, and then the players had to spend all their time narrating exactly what they were doing. Any any narration that didn't specifically mention specific types of traps they were looking for / avoiding, or specific things they were looking at and *how* they were looking at them... basically gave the DM license to just let the PCs blunder into things. "You forgot to tell me what specific measures you took walking down this corridor unlike the last seven, so you fall into this pit." and so on.</p><p></p><p>But once they introduced skills into the game, it changed how many DMs ran things. No longer was overly-precise (and let's face it, in many cases completely lucky and arbitrary) language expected or needed... now the PCs just would say "I'll make a Search check!" or "I'll make a Perception check!" and DMs have become more conditioned to tell the players outright the kinds of things they notice that are more likely important (either positively or negatively). No longer do they have to spend <strong><em>every</em></strong> 10 feet tapping the ground with poles, or verbalizing "What do I see on the ceiling here?" "What are on these walls?" "Tell me specifically what these frescoes depict." etc. etc.</p><p></p><p>To really get back to the spirit of playing ToH in the classic sense... every DM needs to fight their more modern impulses and really not tell their players ANYTHING unless they ask. And take everything they say (or don't say) as their word of what they're doing (and only that) and adjudicate results appropriately. And for goodness sake never let the players use "Can I make a Perception check?" or "Can I make an Investigation check?" to get information, rather than actually narrating everything they feel like they need to observe *and* make them actually manipulate / test objects to see what happens (and usually blunder into the traps in the process of trying to figure them out.)</p><p></p><p>Quite frankly? I don't know if many more modern players would actually enjoy something like ToH if truly run in AD&D style, because it not only doesn't have the DMs give players any hints... but also because so many traps (and their solutions to get around them) are so completely arbitrary that you aren't really "figuring" stuff out, you're just throwing stuff at the wall (usually the lives of dozens of PCs) to see what sticks and works.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DEFCON 1, post: 7064098, member: 7006"] One of the biggest reasons why the Tomb of Horrors has never been as deadly in any of the 3E, 4E or 5E versions compared to the original is simply due to the change in DMing style with the introduction of skills. Which has been pretty much true for all trap-based encounters. Back in the day, the prototypical methodology for most DMs would be to recite the boxed text or narrate casually what was list in any particular room, and then the players had to spend all their time narrating exactly what they were doing. Any any narration that didn't specifically mention specific types of traps they were looking for / avoiding, or specific things they were looking at and *how* they were looking at them... basically gave the DM license to just let the PCs blunder into things. "You forgot to tell me what specific measures you took walking down this corridor unlike the last seven, so you fall into this pit." and so on. But once they introduced skills into the game, it changed how many DMs ran things. No longer was overly-precise (and let's face it, in many cases completely lucky and arbitrary) language expected or needed... now the PCs just would say "I'll make a Search check!" or "I'll make a Perception check!" and DMs have become more conditioned to tell the players outright the kinds of things they notice that are more likely important (either positively or negatively). No longer do they have to spend [B][I]every[/I][/B] 10 feet tapping the ground with poles, or verbalizing "What do I see on the ceiling here?" "What are on these walls?" "Tell me specifically what these frescoes depict." etc. etc. To really get back to the spirit of playing ToH in the classic sense... every DM needs to fight their more modern impulses and really not tell their players ANYTHING unless they ask. And take everything they say (or don't say) as their word of what they're doing (and only that) and adjudicate results appropriately. And for goodness sake never let the players use "Can I make a Perception check?" or "Can I make an Investigation check?" to get information, rather than actually narrating everything they feel like they need to observe *and* make them actually manipulate / test objects to see what happens (and usually blunder into the traps in the process of trying to figure them out.) Quite frankly? I don't know if many more modern players would actually enjoy something like ToH if truly run in AD&D style, because it not only doesn't have the DMs give players any hints... but also because so many traps (and their solutions to get around them) are so completely arbitrary that you aren't really "figuring" stuff out, you're just throwing stuff at the wall (usually the lives of dozens of PCs) to see what sticks and works. [/QUOTE]
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