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<blockquote data-quote="iserith" data-source="post: 7064153" data-attributes="member: 97077"><p>My CoS DM has been thinking of running Tomb of Horrors next. I raised the concern that, while I do like deadly adventures, I don't like deadly adventures whose deadliness is predicated on being unfair. Chiefly along the lines of what you say above with regard to the DM laying what amounts to "verbal traps" e.g. "You didn't say you checked the doorknob! Make a save!" Some of the old school players in the group objected by saying that was part of the fun for them. I just can't agree.</p><p></p><p>In that conversation, I stressed what I see as the D&D 5e paradigm as being fair with regard to this sort of thing. You do have to be <em>reasonably </em>specific to find a hidden object (and describing tasks in general). But you also have general tasks you can perform while traveling the dungeon: Stay Alert, Navigate, Draw a Map, Track, Forage, etc. A character can only do one of these things at a time (or some task that is at least as demanding on focus and time such as, say, searching for secret doors). So if you choose to Stay Alert for monsters and traps, you're not also Searching for Secret Doors. And if you're looking for secret doors, you're not also Staying Alert (unless you're a ranger, perhaps). Passive checks may apply in resolving these general tasks. At the same time, the DM should be telegraphing the threats. Some hint should exist in the boxed text with which the players can engage and make deductions about what they face. </p><p></p><p>So I think the way D&D 5e does things (according to my interpretation) somewhat meets both camps in the middle. You have to say what you're doing. You have to be reasonably specific. But at the same time, the DM is on the hook to telegraph. I haven't read the new version of the module yet, so I hope that my position here is not undermined by how they wrote it. If it leans too closely to the bad old days of the old school dungeon, I may have to bow out of the campaign. I'm all for deadly - but it needs to be fair.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="iserith, post: 7064153, member: 97077"] My CoS DM has been thinking of running Tomb of Horrors next. I raised the concern that, while I do like deadly adventures, I don't like deadly adventures whose deadliness is predicated on being unfair. Chiefly along the lines of what you say above with regard to the DM laying what amounts to "verbal traps" e.g. "You didn't say you checked the doorknob! Make a save!" Some of the old school players in the group objected by saying that was part of the fun for them. I just can't agree. In that conversation, I stressed what I see as the D&D 5e paradigm as being fair with regard to this sort of thing. You do have to be [I]reasonably [/I]specific to find a hidden object (and describing tasks in general). But you also have general tasks you can perform while traveling the dungeon: Stay Alert, Navigate, Draw a Map, Track, Forage, etc. A character can only do one of these things at a time (or some task that is at least as demanding on focus and time such as, say, searching for secret doors). So if you choose to Stay Alert for monsters and traps, you're not also Searching for Secret Doors. And if you're looking for secret doors, you're not also Staying Alert (unless you're a ranger, perhaps). Passive checks may apply in resolving these general tasks. At the same time, the DM should be telegraphing the threats. Some hint should exist in the boxed text with which the players can engage and make deductions about what they face. So I think the way D&D 5e does things (according to my interpretation) somewhat meets both camps in the middle. You have to say what you're doing. You have to be reasonably specific. But at the same time, the DM is on the hook to telegraph. I haven't read the new version of the module yet, so I hope that my position here is not undermined by how they wrote it. If it leans too closely to the bad old days of the old school dungeon, I may have to bow out of the campaign. I'm all for deadly - but it needs to be fair. [/QUOTE]
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