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<blockquote data-quote="Mercurius" data-source="post: 5320771" data-attributes="member: 59082"><p>I wish I could give myself XP for starting this thread, because there are a lot of great ideas here already (OK, XP really doesn't matter but you get my point <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />).</p><p></p><p>One thing stands out from reading over the first few responses. They all agree on one basic point that 4E seems to have lost: <strong>D&D should be a game that individual DMs can easily make their own. </strong>I don't know that WotC intentionally worked against this principle, but DDI--and the increasing focus on it--seems to discourage customization, if only in that it is very difficult to house rule a character within the confines of the computer program.</p><p></p><p>Thus to my list I would add, "Make DDI more customizable, with the capacity to add feats, classes, powers, etc."</p><p></p><p>Lanefan, I appreciate your idea of "5a" and "5b" but wonder if it could possibly work. The only way I think it could work is if the former was marketed as "AD&D Classic" and the latter "5th Edition D&D," most definitely <em>not </em>5a and 5b.</p><p></p><p>But I question the idea of revivifying 1E AD&D. It is not that I don't like it, but that part of its draw is the charm of the early editions, the idiosyncrasies, the Gygaxisms, the minutiae, the clunkiness. Just as much it is the art, the 70s-to-80s printing technology, and other factors that can't really be reproduced today and when it is attempted to reproduce them--e.g. the early Goodman modules--they just end up looking, well, low-budget. I could see reprints of classic books, such as the OD&D books, 1ED DMG, etc, but not a complete revival of the line. And the truth is that there are so many used copies out there--at least of the 1E hardcovers--that anyone interested can easily pick up cheap copies on Ebay or Amazon.</p><p></p><p>What I would rather do, as I said in my post, is find a way to win fans of other editions. This could be two-pronged:</p><p></p><p>1) As eyebeams said, by "repatriating all versions of D&D." Here is a fuller quote:</p><p></p><p><em>I want to make it clear that we love all versions of D&D, from 0 to 4 and everything in between, but we can only support one version (4 and successors) ourselves. We need a community to take care of the rest and would encourage these conversions. I need people playing any kind of D&D because D&D fandom is where I find out which ideas work, and which suck. </em>(eyebeams)</p><p></p><p>In other words, send goodwill to all exponents of all editions, but also be clear that only the recent edition(s) will be supported from within. But, again as eyebeams suggested, establish and support social networking for other iterations of the game.</p><p></p><p>2) The second approach would be to create a 5E that draws from the strengths of all editions and appeals to as many folks as possible. Impossible? I don't think so. The reason why this hasn't worked, imo, is that WotC has not adopted a <em>modular model </em>for the game. It is quite straightforward: Start with a simple, core rules set and then expand outwards from there with interchangeable parts. The simple core is the d20 + modifier vs. target number; it includes ability scores, AC, defenses, HP, and that's about it. Skills may vary, feats and powers will definitely vary, alignment is optional, as are healing surges, etc. The core system would <em>not </em>be dependent upon magic items, and it would not have a default mode that is more like WoW or Hong Kong cinema than it is like Fafhrd and Gray Mouser. Yet the modularity would allow for both styles of play and others besides.</p><p></p><p>Yes, this would prove problematic and potentially confusing for tournament play. But you could have a few levels of it: a simple, core "Basic" game. A recommended extended, or "Advanced" game of traditional options (e.g. alignment, skills, feats, etc), and infinite other varieties in which individual DMs can pick and choose options around the Basic game.</p><p></p><p>Perhaps it goes without saying, but the Basic game would be easy to play without miniatures or DDI.</p><p></p><p>One last note - I also think someone needs to take a look at making another, but good, D&D-related movie, possibly the Dragonlance Chronicles or maybe something set in the Forgotten Realms or Eberron. Or imagine a Dark Sun movie using Brom art in the same way the LotR used John Howe. Guillhermo del Toro directing Dark Sun? I'm sold.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mercurius, post: 5320771, member: 59082"] I wish I could give myself XP for starting this thread, because there are a lot of great ideas here already (OK, XP really doesn't matter but you get my point ;)). One thing stands out from reading over the first few responses. They all agree on one basic point that 4E seems to have lost: [B]D&D should be a game that individual DMs can easily make their own. [/B]I don't know that WotC intentionally worked against this principle, but DDI--and the increasing focus on it--seems to discourage customization, if only in that it is very difficult to house rule a character within the confines of the computer program. Thus to my list I would add, "Make DDI more customizable, with the capacity to add feats, classes, powers, etc." Lanefan, I appreciate your idea of "5a" and "5b" but wonder if it could possibly work. The only way I think it could work is if the former was marketed as "AD&D Classic" and the latter "5th Edition D&D," most definitely [I]not [/I]5a and 5b. But I question the idea of revivifying 1E AD&D. It is not that I don't like it, but that part of its draw is the charm of the early editions, the idiosyncrasies, the Gygaxisms, the minutiae, the clunkiness. Just as much it is the art, the 70s-to-80s printing technology, and other factors that can't really be reproduced today and when it is attempted to reproduce them--e.g. the early Goodman modules--they just end up looking, well, low-budget. I could see reprints of classic books, such as the OD&D books, 1ED DMG, etc, but not a complete revival of the line. And the truth is that there are so many used copies out there--at least of the 1E hardcovers--that anyone interested can easily pick up cheap copies on Ebay or Amazon. What I would rather do, as I said in my post, is find a way to win fans of other editions. This could be two-pronged: 1) As eyebeams said, by "repatriating all versions of D&D." Here is a fuller quote: [I]I want to make it clear that we love all versions of D&D, from 0 to 4 and everything in between, but we can only support one version (4 and successors) ourselves. We need a community to take care of the rest and would encourage these conversions. I need people playing any kind of D&D because D&D fandom is where I find out which ideas work, and which suck. [/I](eyebeams) In other words, send goodwill to all exponents of all editions, but also be clear that only the recent edition(s) will be supported from within. But, again as eyebeams suggested, establish and support social networking for other iterations of the game. 2) The second approach would be to create a 5E that draws from the strengths of all editions and appeals to as many folks as possible. Impossible? I don't think so. The reason why this hasn't worked, imo, is that WotC has not adopted a [I]modular model [/I]for the game. It is quite straightforward: Start with a simple, core rules set and then expand outwards from there with interchangeable parts. The simple core is the d20 + modifier vs. target number; it includes ability scores, AC, defenses, HP, and that's about it. Skills may vary, feats and powers will definitely vary, alignment is optional, as are healing surges, etc. The core system would [I]not [/I]be dependent upon magic items, and it would not have a default mode that is more like WoW or Hong Kong cinema than it is like Fafhrd and Gray Mouser. Yet the modularity would allow for both styles of play and others besides. Yes, this would prove problematic and potentially confusing for tournament play. But you could have a few levels of it: a simple, core "Basic" game. A recommended extended, or "Advanced" game of traditional options (e.g. alignment, skills, feats, etc), and infinite other varieties in which individual DMs can pick and choose options around the Basic game. Perhaps it goes without saying, but the Basic game would be easy to play without miniatures or DDI. One last note - I also think someone needs to take a look at making another, but good, D&D-related movie, possibly the Dragonlance Chronicles or maybe something set in the Forgotten Realms or Eberron. Or imagine a Dark Sun movie using Brom art in the same way the LotR used John Howe. Guillhermo del Toro directing Dark Sun? I'm sold. [/QUOTE]
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