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<blockquote data-quote="wolff96" data-source="post: 5316055" data-attributes="member: 342">That's why I ended up going to non-D&amp;D games full time.&nbsp; Let me start by saying that I'm not trying to cause an edition war here, or say that only Indy games have value.&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />I've found that D&amp;D -- any edition -- comes with a certain expectation from players that have gamed before.&nbsp; They expect the DM to be the only gateway to the world.&nbsp; They expect to run around, find plot hooks, and follow them to adventure.&nbsp; They expect games to have underlying structure, even in a sandbox-style environment.To break that mindset in my players, I had to introduce new books.&nbsp; By breaking that level of familiar comfort, I was able to shake up the mindset of passivity.&nbsp; First Warhammer and now FATE, specifically Spirit of the Century and the Dresden Files, have really encouraged the players to get involved, to define big portions of the world, and to find what is important to THEIR character.It's not some universal law, but I was able to get a *huge* amount of player buy-in, simply by disrupting the players' comfort zone with a new system.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="wolff96, post: 5316055, member: 342"] That's why I ended up going to non-D&D games full time. Let me start by saying that I'm not trying to cause an edition war here, or say that only Indy games have value. :) I've found that D&D -- any edition -- comes with a certain expectation from players that have gamed before. They expect the DM to be the only gateway to the world. They expect to run around, find plot hooks, and follow them to adventure. They expect games to have underlying structure, even in a sandbox-style environment. To break that mindset in my players, I had to introduce new books. By breaking that level of familiar comfort, I was able to shake up the mindset of passivity. First Warhammer and now FATE, specifically Spirit of the Century and the Dresden Files, have really encouraged the players to get involved, to define big portions of the world, and to find what is important to THEIR character. It's not some universal law, but I was able to get a *huge* amount of player buy-in, simply by disrupting the players' comfort zone with a new system. [/QUOTE]

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