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Level 11+: How do the Warriors compare?
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<blockquote data-quote="Xeviat" data-source="post: 7163180" data-attributes="member: 57494"><p>Hi everyone. I've been working on a house rule to remove Extra Attack. I was reminded of it by the recent alternative multiclassing thread. I dislike the juxtaposition of Extra Attack alongside the beautiful Rogue progression and the spellcaster's cantrip progression.</p><p></p><p>So, I was wanting to explore changing weapon damage to be 1[W] per tier, just like cantrips. Characters would drop down to single attacks, except TWFing. There would also be learned maneuvers for the warriors to allow for other tricks, like giving up a weapon die to split your attacks between multiple targets (this way, your multitarget damage is cumulatively higher than your single target damage, but your single target damage is higher per target; 1d8+5 to two or 2d8+5 to one, for instance).</p><p></p><p>In place of Extra Attack, the warrior classes would get abilities like the cantrip users and clerics get. They'd get across the board buffs to their attacks. This way, a multiclasser wouldn't necessarily feel rushed to reach 5th level in a particular class to keep up, but the classes are still rewarded at certain tiers.</p><p></p><p>In my initial ideas, I ended up with the following abilities. They were all balanced roughly equally with the PHB versions, but things got weird past that:</p><p></p><p>Barbarian: half-damage on a miss. When a barbarian attacks you, even if your armor takes it, it still hurts.</p><p></p><p>Valor Bard and the other Gishes: War Magic. Instead of Extra Attack, let them make attacks and cantrip uses at the same time. This needs to explicitly state that it's a 1W weapon attack, though.</p><p></p><p>Fighter: Weapon Mastery. The Fighter gets a bonus to hit and damage with weapon attacks. Not counting barbarian reckless attack, fighters are the most accurate. This is easily balanced through level 20, though I'd recommend moving their capstones around since weapon damage scales at 17th.</p><p></p><p>Monk: Improved Martial Arts. The monk keeps their multiple attacks. While their main attack scales with additional dice, they'll gain more 1W unarmed attacks.</p><p></p><p>Paladin: Improved Divine Smite. Move the paladin's improved divine smite earlier. They get extra radiant damage on their attacks sooner to keep up with the curve.</p><p></p><p>Ranger: Hunter's Quarry. Give Rangers a form of sneak attack against targeted foes. It's similar to the paladin's radiant damage. Maybe let this bypass any damage resistances? Or something.</p><p></p><p>So, I really liked how these looked at 5th. The Fighter was balancable all the way through 20th. The Rogue had to have its sneak attack progression adjusted since it got extra weapon dice, but it interestingly rewarded single weapon rogues a bit, which I think needed to happen.</p><p></p><p>What ended up happening, though, is the barbarian's damage started to climb at 11th, since the barbarian doesn't get a damage boost around then. They get their higher crit damage, but those are uncommon and don't drastically impact the averages. Paladins we're fine to 11th, but we're boosted at 17th. Rangers were fine at 11th if you adjust their subclass abilities then, but they too were boosted at 17th. Monks too started gaining damage at 11th.</p><p></p><p>I haven't gotten to play an 11th level or higher game yet, so I don't know how the other warriors stack up to the Fighter and Rogue at those levels. I suspect the paladin is fine. I suspect the new beastmaster Ranger is fine then. I suspect the role of the Barbarian and Monk are turning then, with Barbarians able to rage for most combat encounters and the monk trading damage for control then.</p><p></p><p>But, I'd like to hear from others. Do you like Extra Attacks too much to hear trading them out for a different system? Do the other warriors need boosts at 11th or 17th, or would them getting damage boosts then make them too good?</p><p></p><p></p><p>Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Xeviat, post: 7163180, member: 57494"] Hi everyone. I've been working on a house rule to remove Extra Attack. I was reminded of it by the recent alternative multiclassing thread. I dislike the juxtaposition of Extra Attack alongside the beautiful Rogue progression and the spellcaster's cantrip progression. So, I was wanting to explore changing weapon damage to be 1[W] per tier, just like cantrips. Characters would drop down to single attacks, except TWFing. There would also be learned maneuvers for the warriors to allow for other tricks, like giving up a weapon die to split your attacks between multiple targets (this way, your multitarget damage is cumulatively higher than your single target damage, but your single target damage is higher per target; 1d8+5 to two or 2d8+5 to one, for instance). In place of Extra Attack, the warrior classes would get abilities like the cantrip users and clerics get. They'd get across the board buffs to their attacks. This way, a multiclasser wouldn't necessarily feel rushed to reach 5th level in a particular class to keep up, but the classes are still rewarded at certain tiers. In my initial ideas, I ended up with the following abilities. They were all balanced roughly equally with the PHB versions, but things got weird past that: Barbarian: half-damage on a miss. When a barbarian attacks you, even if your armor takes it, it still hurts. Valor Bard and the other Gishes: War Magic. Instead of Extra Attack, let them make attacks and cantrip uses at the same time. This needs to explicitly state that it's a 1W weapon attack, though. Fighter: Weapon Mastery. The Fighter gets a bonus to hit and damage with weapon attacks. Not counting barbarian reckless attack, fighters are the most accurate. This is easily balanced through level 20, though I'd recommend moving their capstones around since weapon damage scales at 17th. Monk: Improved Martial Arts. The monk keeps their multiple attacks. While their main attack scales with additional dice, they'll gain more 1W unarmed attacks. Paladin: Improved Divine Smite. Move the paladin's improved divine smite earlier. They get extra radiant damage on their attacks sooner to keep up with the curve. Ranger: Hunter's Quarry. Give Rangers a form of sneak attack against targeted foes. It's similar to the paladin's radiant damage. Maybe let this bypass any damage resistances? Or something. So, I really liked how these looked at 5th. The Fighter was balancable all the way through 20th. The Rogue had to have its sneak attack progression adjusted since it got extra weapon dice, but it interestingly rewarded single weapon rogues a bit, which I think needed to happen. What ended up happening, though, is the barbarian's damage started to climb at 11th, since the barbarian doesn't get a damage boost around then. They get their higher crit damage, but those are uncommon and don't drastically impact the averages. Paladins we're fine to 11th, but we're boosted at 17th. Rangers were fine at 11th if you adjust their subclass abilities then, but they too were boosted at 17th. Monks too started gaining damage at 11th. I haven't gotten to play an 11th level or higher game yet, so I don't know how the other warriors stack up to the Fighter and Rogue at those levels. I suspect the paladin is fine. I suspect the new beastmaster Ranger is fine then. I suspect the role of the Barbarian and Monk are turning then, with Barbarians able to rage for most combat encounters and the monk trading damage for control then. But, I'd like to hear from others. Do you like Extra Attacks too much to hear trading them out for a different system? Do the other warriors need boosts at 11th or 17th, or would them getting damage boosts then make them too good? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk [/QUOTE]
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