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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Darkness" data-source="post: 1953915" data-attributes="member: 13">Right, let's not hijack this thread with an NPC class gear debate.Thus, let's put this stuff in sblocks:Jdvn1 -[sblock] Then again, maybe yes. Actually, certainly yes. Stat it up. You'll see. Yeah. The ELH suggests lowering the CRs for NPCs. It's way worse with NPC class characters, though.Yep, absolutely.I have. It's so far off it isn't even funny - except at the lowest levels. That's not how CR works. Instead, you have to consider what is more dangerous to a level 10 party of four - a Com20 or a Ftr10.If they're similarly equipped, the Fighter is the bigger threat (see below). Of course, if you give the Com20 the gear of a CR 19 character, he'll be stronger than he otherwise would be. But the same goes for the Fighter.Com20 vs. Ftr10Com20 gets nonelite stats. (Otherwise, +1 CR.) +5 points for levelFtr10 gets elite stats. +2 points for levelHDCom20: 20d4 (50 hp; would be 51 if he was an elite character)Ftr10: 10d10, maximized at first level (59 hp)High Con is a bigger advantage for the Com, as he gets more bonus hp from it.BAB: the sameSVCom 20: all +6Ftr10: Fort +7, others +3Skillskinda irrelevant, though the Ftr gets Intimidate, which might come in handyFeatsCom20: 7Ftr10: 4 + 6 bonus = 10 feats totalWP/APCom20: one simple weapon P, no APFtr10: All that isn't ExoticI think you can see that it's close. The Fighter has a certain advantage, though. 1/2 is probably still slightly too high. 40-45% might be closer to the truth.If we give this guy 170,000 gp (as for a CR 19 character), he's better off. I'd call the above about CR 9. Tons of gear would make it a 12, maybe. Unfortunately, 170,000 gp in gear is much too high a reward for a level 12 party so I wouldn't recommend it.Even if it was a 14 or something (which it isn't), the reward is silly high.In conclusion, if you apply the sparse DMG guidelines for NPC class character CR without thinking, you end up with a 'challenge' the PCs simply walk over.If you reduce the CR without reducing the gear as well, the risk might be appropriate but the reward will be anything but; it will be much too high for the PCs' level.[/sblock]</blockquote>

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