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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Technik4" data-source="post: 1124982" data-attributes="member: 7211">I dont know why you insist on this rogue level. Just leave it at the orc being a better barbarian, it makes for a stronger argument. Of course the orc could multiclass instead, but especially in the mid-levels this could be seen as a poor decision. What good is find traps when your search ranks have been ignored for 5 levels? The orc has one extra HD which confers the following: slightly higher BAB, saves, skill ranks, and HP. Thats it. Is it something? Hecks yea, if it wasn't then half-ogres wouldn't be balanced at ECL +1 (which, imo, is dubious at best).The half-ogre comes ahead on Attack and Damage Bonuses, and can attack with reach without a spell. The half-ogre is even when it comes to AC and saves (assuming a barbarian comparison). The half-ogre is behind when it comes to BAB and Hit points. These aren't my opinions, these are facts.At 2nd level you're right - the orc is better. However even I (who tell people not to compare things at the highest level of play) will say that this comparison deserves a check-up around level 8. That one HD means a lot less now, especially because the Half-Ogre's 8 extra hit points (from higher constitution) have had time to mature. The orc is still up 1 point of BAB (which means he got his extra attack 1 level earlier, and will all the way up the level chart) but his attack bonus is probably still lower, as well as lower damage. At 8th level of play, if you want to compare bonuses against certain spells (when they have a chance of being cast on the character) you will find that it takes a Dominate Monster not a Dominate Person to trick the half-ogre. And a myriad more comparisons that basically cut even.Back to the genasi, where did you get that native outsiders can be dismissed? I haven't seen it yet, is it in 3.5?And while being dismissed is a whole lot worse than charm person (if what you say is true), it isn't much worse than a dominate person (or a hold person).Technik</blockquote>

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