Level Adjustment, XPs & Balance

[The Dread Morg]

Hello Everyone,

I'm not very schooled in the logic of the 3.5 formula, so forgive me if this is rather "basic", but I am wondering if the rule (I believe it was in 2E) where a character can suffer/enjoy a % bonus to earned XPs carried over into 3.5>

I know that 3.5 says to balance attributes against attributes, and that XPs should not be generally used as a modifier, but I am wondering if it would "break" the engine if I did just that? I am trying to convert a race into 3.5, and balancing attributes against themselves doesn't really work very well without destroying the "flavour" of the campaign. What I am wondering is if I can balance the attribute modifiers with a +10% "penalty" (meaning it takes 10% more XPs to gain a level) instead.

Also, is that basically the same thing as using a Level Adjustment instead of the funky math? As I understand Level Adjustments, the character is typically considered to be one level higher than he actually is. Thus, in order to level up, he would require more XPs than the rest of his party. Is that correct? If so, how would this stack up as a balancing modifier to the racial abiltiy adjustments?

 

[Pax]

Use a level adjustment. Unbalanced attributes are generally with a +1 LA in and of themselves; really nifty (or powerful) special abilities are worth yet more LA, though it gets fuzzier there.

Do you have Savage Species ... ? They walk you through the process of guesstimating an appropriate LA for any race.

If not -- post the race's stats here, I'm sure I or another regular can and will run through the numbers for a "first look" level adjustment.

Just keep in mind -- and in yourplayers' minds -- that any LA determined that way, is and should be subject to contant review andpossible revision. I say, always err on teh side of too much LA ... if you decide you were too harsh, it's easier IMO to tell the player "hey, man, that race should've only been +4, not +5 ... so, pick a new level and level up right now, but keep your ECL the same. Merry Christmas, Happy Kwanza, or whatever" ... than to have to take a level AWAY from them. ^_^

 

[The Dread Morg]

Thanks Pax! Nope, no Savage Specieis on this end I'm afraid.

Well, basically I'm trying to "modify" the standard Elf to be more like those presented in the Lord of the Rings. The basic outline below is slightly modified from that presented in the Birthright Campaign Setting [from birthright.net], but tweaked for my own campaigns.

Birthright Elf (sidhelien)

- Ability Adjustments: +2 Dex, +2 Charisma
- Immune to sleep spells.
- +2 racial save bonus against Enchantment effects.
- Low Light Vision
- +2 Racial Bonus on Listen and Spot checks
- Timelessness: Do not suffer the ravages of time and are immune to aging attacks and normal disease. Age has no effect on physical or mental abilities. Do not require sleep, but must rest quietly for the same basic time a human needs sleep.
- Natures Stride: May move freely through natural terrain without suffering movement penalties. (Still suffer damage though if terrain presents a "natural attack" ie. Thorn filled valley, or razor sharp rocks that would normally damage a human.)
- Automatic Language: Elf
- Favoured Class: Any arcane spell casting class.
- NOTE: Birthirght elves do not worship dieities, and cannot cast divine magic (at least as a racial group.)

I am also contemplating some kind of racial ability (or perhaps a skill?) that mimks the "awareness" that Legolas seemed to have with his surroundings in hte movies. (He was always warning Aragorn that something wicked was near), but not sure how to do that exactley yet.

Also, what sort of changes might arise if I alter the racial type from humanoid to Fey? (I just can't seem to grasp the "inter-connectivity of the 3E engine!)

Any suggestions or ideas on how this race would balance are most welcome.

 

[Pax]

Okay, let's look at what they get that's different from a standard PHB elf:

- Ability Adjustments: +2 Dex, +2 Charisma
- Timelessness: Do not suffer the ravages of time and are immune to aging attacks and normal disease. Age has no effect on physical or mental abilities. Do not require sleep, but must rest quietly for the same basic time a human needs sleep.
- Natures Stride: May move freely through natural terrain without suffering movement penalties. (Still suffer damage though if terrain presents a "natural attack" ie. Thorn filled valley, or razor sharp rocks that would normally damage a human.)
- Favoured Class: Any arcane spell casting class.
- NOTE: Birthirght elves do not worship dieities, and cannot cast divine magic (at least as a racial group.)

All but the last of these is advantageous. Nature's Stride is a fairly weak ability, as is Timelessness; they lose the innate proficiencies a PHB Elf would get, and cannot be divine spellcasters. IMO, those all balance out ... except for the attribute bonusses. The synergy between having a Charisma bonus, and being able to count any arcane spellcaster class as Preferred, makes this race worth (IMO) +1 or +2. I really doubt it's truly worth the +2, as this isn't nearly as strong a race as, say, Drow (which are officially a +2 race).

All in all, I really have to say that this strikes me as no more powerful than an Aasimar or Tiefling, and I can't even personally justify setting it at +2, even on a "for now" basis.

I'd call it a +1 LA race, therefor. It's good, but not amazingly good. ^_^

I am also contemplating some kind of racial ability (or perhaps a skill?) that mimks the "awareness" that Legolas seemed to have with his surroundings in hte movies. (He was always warning Aragorn that something wicked was near), but not sure how to do that exactley yet.

They already have that benefit, really, in the form of the Racial bonusses to Listen and Spot.

Also, what sort of changes might arise if I alter the racial type from humanoid to Fey? (I just can't seem to grasp the "inter-connectivity of the 3E engine!)

That would be a bigger change. Charm Person wouldn't work on them anymore, nor would Hold Person. Logically, such a creature should get a small DR -- like the "5/cold iron" damage reduction that Nixies have. Doing both the Type change, and granting that DR, would be worth another +1 LA between them, IMO.

 

[The Dread Morg]

IMO, those all balance out ... except for the attribute bonusses. The synergy between having a Charisma bonus, and being able to count any arcane spellcaster class as Preferred, makes this race worth (IMO) +1 or +2. I really doubt it's truly worth the +2, as this isn't nearly as strong a race as, say, Drow (which are officially a +2 race).

Thanks Pax! So basically, it's just the unbalanced attribute mods that warrant a +1 ECL?

So just for clarification, this elf would act like a level 1 character in all respects until it came time to level up (he'd have to essentially get enough XPs to become a level 3 character in order to advance to level 2).

If I were to actually calculate encounter levels, then I'd have to factor in this +1 ECL for the over all group level right? (I don't use encounter levels though... if the bad guys are too tough, the PCs should be smart enough to run away IMO.)

 

[Pax]

With a +1 Level Adjustment, he should be "one level behind" in all ways except in regards to wealth and XP.

Let's say you were starting a campaign at ... 4th level. Everyone would get 5,400gp and 6,000XP. The standard human would be able to have 4 class levels; the Elf you describe would have only three class levels ... and his ECL would be 4. He doesn't lose any money, he still gets the same "wealth for a 4th level character", because that is his Effective Character Level.

When you award XP, you count him as a 4th level character; when he checks to see if he levels up, he looks at the XP cost to get to 5th level in order to determine when he can add a class level.

When building encounters, count him as a 4th level character - just like his fellow PCs.

But when a spell refers to the Level or HD of a target, he's a 3d level character.

ECLs do require a bit of double-think, but once you've handled it a few times, it'll start becoming second nature. ^_^

 

[Kae'Yoss]

I'd get rid of the atheism. In Middle Earth, the Elves are a very devoted people, the ones that really worship the Valar and Maia.

For middle-earth races, see http://www.enworld.org/med20/ the Middle Earth d20 page.

Elves, Wood: as per D&D Elves, modified as follows:

+2 racial bonus on any Perform (Sing) check
+2 racial bonus on Wilderness Lore checks
+2 racial bonus to resist fire or heat
+2 racial bonus against poison
+2 racial bonus Listen, Search, and Spot checks
Immune to natural cold
Immune to disease, mundane or magical
Immune to scarring
Movement unimpeded by snow or wooded terrain
Automatic language: Sindarin
Favored class: ranger
Immune to any fear effects caused by undead
Cannot be turned into undead
Can communicate silently with other Elves, and Maiar and Valar, by direct thought. This is similar to the psionic power Mindlink.
ECL+1

Elves, Sindar: as per Wood Elves, modified as follows:

Wis+2, Chr+2, Dex+2
+4 racial bonus on Perform (Sing) checks
Favored class: any
+2 racial bonus to Profession (Sailor) checks
Replace Wilderness Lore bonus with +2 racial bonus on Craft (Shipwright) checks
Automatic Languages: Sindarin, Quenya, Westron
ECL+2

Elves, Noldor: as per Sindar, modified as follows:
Str+2, Dex+2, Con+2, Int+2, Wis+2, Chr+4
+2 racial bonus on Perform (Sing) checks
Replace bonuses to Craft (Shipwright) and Profession (Sailor) with +4 racial bonus on any Craft skill of the player's choice - it should be noted that Noldor were legendary for their work with precious metals and jewelry
Noldor glow with a faint luminescence
ECL+3

Pretty powerful, and pretty high LA.