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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Herremann the Wise" data-source="post: 5731159" data-attributes="member: 11300">Sometimes though to model things effectively and with a degree of elegance, such transparency is not really ideal. I agree to a point but when the "opacity" of a model gets too much, as long as the mechanic does what it says on the tin, and mirrors fairly well the actual mathematics, I'm OK with that too.One thing that bothers me about Burning Wheel (which I seem to remember saying you were looking at for a new game - and I've been looking at it too, although mostly trying to incorporate its GMing advice into my 4e game) is that its maths is quite non-transparent. To work out the impact of a +1 Ob penalty or a +1D advantage requires doing fairly complex combinatorial calculations.</blockquote>You can picture this by imagining a bell curve, and each die added to the mix for a particular Ob attracting the curve to right (increasing the probability of success). I agree that this is opaque and from my limited understanding of the effect of "artha" on the calculation, the statistics are a little bit muddy. Seems like fun though! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />I've had the Gold edition for about a week and I'm really impressed so far. I'm slowly going through it because it is all new to me. 600 pages for just over 20USD is a real bargain and as a product, it feels very nicely polished.I'm not the greatest fan of 4e's relative scaling DCs. I prefer the absolute system of 3e which was designed brilliantly but then let down here and there by poor implementation (the save system tried to borrow the mechanic and struggled).Best RegardsHerremann the Wise[/QUOTE]

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