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Message: <blockquote data-quote="LordEntrails" data-source="post: 8873800" data-attributes="member: 6804070">I think there are very very few.First, That's wrong, there are tons of ways to make challenges that are character level independent. But they almost all are Player challenges, not character challenges (mazes, puzzles, social challenges without DC rolls).I don't usually like player challenges. And any social challenge that uses skill rolls to determine anything (persuasion, insight, etc) are level based. If they don't have skill/ability rolls, then they are player challenges.If there are DCs, then is is level dependent. If not, then you are challenging the Players role playing ability.And therefore it is level dependent.Now this, the concept of a mini game, is the only thing I've seen mentioned that actually removes the character abilities from play, and does not require player ability to resolve. So, mini games. Where the players control (without DC rolls)  some other entity (cats, npcs, magic chess pieces, constructs, etc) and therefore it is up to the ability of what they control to determine the outcome is the only level independent challenge that I can see that is not a Player challenge.Player challenge offset by character level.If there are DCs, then level dependent, if not, Player challenge.Yep, and why role play? Why not just have a mental challenge between players? To me, role playing is about surpassing, bypassing, or altering player abilities and playing pretend.In a level-based system like D&D, why try to bypass one of the primary mechanics of the game?</blockquote>

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