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<blockquote data-quote="Cheiromancer" data-source="post: 1514166" data-attributes="member: 141">Yeah.&nbsp; The boards were very tedious.&nbsp; Hopefully the new server will be available soon!Anyways, I am still tinkering...The close fit between the xp chart and the suggested PC wealth started me wondering- why not make the xp required to get to a new level be (level x level x level) x 100?&nbsp; Ignore level 1 (or let the first 100 xp be an &quot;apprentice level&quot;), and for levels 2 or higher round up to the nearest 1000: using this method you get 1000 xp to get to level two (800 rounded up), 3000 xp to get to level three (2700 rounded up), and so on; it agrees with my previous chart for a few levels, then diverges a bit later on.At level 10 the character will have 100,000 xp, and will need 34,000 xp to get to the next level.&nbsp; He'll need 16.2 encounters of CR 11 to advance, or 14.6 CR 12 encounters.&nbsp; But what CR is a 10th level character anyway?&nbsp; The standard array is a +1 CR, but isn't it likely that a 10th level character has stats a little better than that?&nbsp; Enough that he is really a CR 12?&nbsp; If not, how about the +1.15 CR that the average level of class adds; after 10 levels he is 1.5 CR ahead, and so is &quot;really&quot; a CR 12.5.&nbsp; A fair challenge for a party of four CR 12.5 characters is a CR 12.5 monster, and just a little under 13 such encounters is required.But suppose you use the silver rule *and* keep the standard array.&nbsp; Then higher level characters will level a little more slowly; 10th or higher level characters need 16 moderate encounters instead of 13.&nbsp; That's still very fair, I think.&nbsp; And 16 is a nicer number than 13.333... anyways. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink&nbsp; &nbsp; ;)"&nbsp; data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />So I propose that a very reasonable level/xp chart would be the following:[code][color=green]Level&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Required XP[/color]1&nbsp; &nbsp; 02&nbsp; &nbsp; 1,0003&nbsp; &nbsp; 3,0004&nbsp; &nbsp; 7,0005&nbsp; &nbsp; 13,0006&nbsp; &nbsp; 22,0007&nbsp; &nbsp; 35,0008&nbsp; &nbsp; 52,0009&nbsp; &nbsp; 73,00010&nbsp; &nbsp; 100,00011&nbsp; &nbsp; 134,00012&nbsp; &nbsp; 173,00013&nbsp; &nbsp; 220,00014&nbsp; &nbsp; 275,00015&nbsp; &nbsp; 338,00016&nbsp; &nbsp; 410,00017&nbsp; &nbsp; 492,00018&nbsp; &nbsp; 584,00019&nbsp; &nbsp; 686,00020&nbsp; &nbsp; 800,00021&nbsp; &nbsp; 927,00022&nbsp; &nbsp; 1,065,00023&nbsp; &nbsp; 1,217,00024&nbsp; &nbsp; 1,383,00025&nbsp; &nbsp; 1,563,00026&nbsp; &nbsp; 1,758,00027&nbsp; &nbsp; 1,969,00028&nbsp; &nbsp; 2,196,00029&nbsp; &nbsp; 2,439,00030&nbsp; &nbsp; 2,700,00031&nbsp; &nbsp; 2,980,00032&nbsp; &nbsp; 3,277,00033&nbsp; &nbsp; 3,594,00034&nbsp; &nbsp; 3,931,00035&nbsp; &nbsp; 4,288,00036&nbsp; &nbsp; 4,666,00037&nbsp; &nbsp; 5,066,00038&nbsp; &nbsp; 5,488,00039&nbsp; &nbsp; 5,932,00040&nbsp; &nbsp; 6,400,00041&nbsp; &nbsp; 6,893,00042&nbsp; &nbsp; 7,409,00043&nbsp; &nbsp; 7,951,00044&nbsp; &nbsp; 8,519,00045&nbsp; &nbsp; 9,113,00046&nbsp; &nbsp; 9,734,00047&nbsp; &nbsp; 10,383,00048&nbsp; &nbsp; 11,060,00049&nbsp; &nbsp; 11,765,00050&nbsp; &nbsp; 12,500,00051&nbsp; &nbsp; 13,266,00052&nbsp; &nbsp; 14,061,00053&nbsp; &nbsp; 14,888,00054&nbsp; &nbsp; 15,747,00055&nbsp; &nbsp; 16,638,00056&nbsp; &nbsp; 17,562,00057&nbsp; &nbsp; 18,520,00058&nbsp; &nbsp; 19,512,00059&nbsp; &nbsp; 20,538,00060&nbsp; &nbsp; 21,600,00061&nbsp; &nbsp; 22,699,00062&nbsp; &nbsp; 23,833,00063&nbsp; &nbsp; 25,005,00064&nbsp; &nbsp; 26,215,00065&nbsp; &nbsp; 27,463,00066&nbsp; &nbsp; 28,750,00067&nbsp; &nbsp; 30,077,00068&nbsp; &nbsp; 31,444,00069&nbsp; &nbsp; 32,851,00070&nbsp; &nbsp; 34,300,00071&nbsp; &nbsp; 35,792,00072&nbsp; &nbsp; 37,325,00073&nbsp; &nbsp; 38,902,00074&nbsp; &nbsp; 40,523,00075&nbsp; &nbsp; 42,188,00076&nbsp; &nbsp; 43,898,00077&nbsp; &nbsp; 45,654,00078&nbsp; &nbsp; 47,456,00079&nbsp; &nbsp; 49,304,00080&nbsp; &nbsp; 51,200,00081&nbsp; &nbsp; 53,145,00082&nbsp; &nbsp; 55,137,00083&nbsp; &nbsp; 57,179,00084&nbsp; &nbsp; 59,271,00085&nbsp; &nbsp; 61,413,00086&nbsp; &nbsp; 63,606,00087&nbsp; &nbsp; 65,851,00088&nbsp; &nbsp; 68,148,00089&nbsp; &nbsp; 70,497,00090&nbsp; &nbsp; 72,900,00091&nbsp; &nbsp; 75,358,00092&nbsp; &nbsp; 77,869,00093&nbsp; &nbsp; 80,436,00094&nbsp; &nbsp; 83,059,00095&nbsp; &nbsp; 85,738,00096&nbsp; &nbsp; 88,474,00097&nbsp; &nbsp; 91,268,00098&nbsp; &nbsp; 94,120,00099&nbsp; &nbsp; 97,030,000100&nbsp; &nbsp; 100,000,000[/code]I hardly need to provide such a big chart; anyone with a pocket calculator can calculate a cube, multiply by 100, and round up to the nearest 1000.&nbsp; All else being equal, ease of calculation is a virtue.Common situations (PCs have higher than average ability scores or treasure, the DM does not apply the silver rule, or prefers a slightly slower than average advancement) will make this chart provide a better fit than the one I posted in posts 2 and 9.&nbsp; It also yields a 1:1 relationship between gp and xp.&nbsp; Both of these are points in favor of the revision.The numbers are large, though; and that is a point in favor of the core rules xp chart.&nbsp; But the core rules xp chart requires something like the EL table to implement- and it is highly non-intuitive.&nbsp; (See Thanee's post, above).Now the question is if there is still a role for EL?&nbsp; I think that everything necessary can be done using CR.&nbsp; A 10th level party will get a fair challenge out of a CR 10 or CR 12 monster.&nbsp; A CR 5 or 6 monster will be very easy, and a CR 20-24 will be quite tough.&nbsp; Doubling or halving the CR is equivalent to adding or subtracting 4 to the EL; most encounters would be in that range of +/- 4 EL.A +4 EL encounter will provide the characters with 1/4 the experience needed to advance a level.&nbsp; It will also almost kill them (100% use of resources to defeat a +4 EL encounter).&nbsp; Since (N+1)^3 - N^3 is (3N^2 + 3N + 1), you can roughly estimate that (level x level) x 100 xp is the maximum that should be awarded to a character in one encounter.&nbsp; An encounter worht more xp than that will likely kill the character.&nbsp; That's a fairly easy number to calculate, and it should be easy to design encounters based on particular fraction of that amount.&nbsp; Anyways, I hope the boards are faster tonight, and you get a chance to look at this more thoroughly.&nbsp; Unless I've made some stupid mistake (known to happen!), I think this can provide a very smooth, robust implementation of your revised rules for determining CR.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Cheiromancer, post: 1514166, member: 141"] Yeah. The boards were very tedious. Hopefully the new server will be available soon! Anyways, I am still tinkering...The close fit between the xp chart and the suggested PC wealth started me wondering- why not make the xp required to get to a new level be (level x level x level) x 100? Ignore level 1 (or let the first 100 xp be an "apprentice level"), and for levels 2 or higher round up to the nearest 1000: using this method you get 1000 xp to get to level two (800 rounded up), 3000 xp to get to level three (2700 rounded up), and so on; it agrees with my previous chart for a few levels, then diverges a bit later on. At level 10 the character will have 100,000 xp, and will need 34,000 xp to get to the next level. He'll need 16.2 encounters of CR 11 to advance, or 14.6 CR 12 encounters. But what CR is a 10th level character anyway? The standard array is a +1 CR, but isn't it likely that a 10th level character has stats a little better than that? Enough that he is really a CR 12? If not, how about the +1.15 CR that the average level of class adds; after 10 levels he is 1.5 CR ahead, and so is "really" a CR 12.5. A fair challenge for a party of four CR 12.5 characters is a CR 12.5 monster, and just a little under 13 such encounters is required. But suppose you use the silver rule *and* keep the standard array. Then higher level characters will level a little more slowly; 10th or higher level characters need 16 moderate encounters instead of 13. That's still very fair, I think. And 16 is a nicer number than 13.333... anyways. ;) So I propose that a very reasonable level/xp chart would be the following: [code] [color=green]Level Required XP[/color] 1 0 2 1,000 3 3,000 4 7,000 5 13,000 6 22,000 7 35,000 8 52,000 9 73,000 10 100,000 11 134,000 12 173,000 13 220,000 14 275,000 15 338,000 16 410,000 17 492,000 18 584,000 19 686,000 20 800,000 21 927,000 22 1,065,000 23 1,217,000 24 1,383,000 25 1,563,000 26 1,758,000 27 1,969,000 28 2,196,000 29 2,439,000 30 2,700,000 31 2,980,000 32 3,277,000 33 3,594,000 34 3,931,000 35 4,288,000 36 4,666,000 37 5,066,000 38 5,488,000 39 5,932,000 40 6,400,000 41 6,893,000 42 7,409,000 43 7,951,000 44 8,519,000 45 9,113,000 46 9,734,000 47 10,383,000 48 11,060,000 49 11,765,000 50 12,500,000 51 13,266,000 52 14,061,000 53 14,888,000 54 15,747,000 55 16,638,000 56 17,562,000 57 18,520,000 58 19,512,000 59 20,538,000 60 21,600,000 61 22,699,000 62 23,833,000 63 25,005,000 64 26,215,000 65 27,463,000 66 28,750,000 67 30,077,000 68 31,444,000 69 32,851,000 70 34,300,000 71 35,792,000 72 37,325,000 73 38,902,000 74 40,523,000 75 42,188,000 76 43,898,000 77 45,654,000 78 47,456,000 79 49,304,000 80 51,200,000 81 53,145,000 82 55,137,000 83 57,179,000 84 59,271,000 85 61,413,000 86 63,606,000 87 65,851,000 88 68,148,000 89 70,497,000 90 72,900,000 91 75,358,000 92 77,869,000 93 80,436,000 94 83,059,000 95 85,738,000 96 88,474,000 97 91,268,000 98 94,120,000 99 97,030,000 100 100,000,000[/code] I hardly need to provide such a big chart; anyone with a pocket calculator can calculate a cube, multiply by 100, and round up to the nearest 1000. All else being equal, ease of calculation is a virtue. Common situations (PCs have higher than average ability scores or treasure, the DM does not apply the silver rule, or prefers a slightly slower than average advancement) will make this chart provide a better fit than the one I posted in posts 2 and 9. It also yields a 1:1 relationship between gp and xp. Both of these are points in favor of the revision. The numbers are large, though; and that is a point in favor of the core rules xp chart. But the core rules xp chart requires something like the EL table to implement- and it is highly non-intuitive. (See Thanee's post, above). Now the question is if there is still a role for EL? I think that everything necessary can be done using CR. A 10th level party will get a fair challenge out of a CR 10 or CR 12 monster. A CR 5 or 6 monster will be very easy, and a CR 20-24 will be quite tough. Doubling or halving the CR is equivalent to adding or subtracting 4 to the EL; most encounters would be in that range of +/- 4 EL. A +4 EL encounter will provide the characters with 1/4 the experience needed to advance a level. It will also almost kill them (100% use of resources to defeat a +4 EL encounter). Since (N+1)^3 - N^3 is (3N^2 + 3N + 1), you can roughly estimate that (level x level) x 100 xp is the maximum that should be awarded to a character in one encounter. An encounter worht more xp than that will likely kill the character. That's a fairly easy number to calculate, and it should be easy to design encounters based on particular fraction of that amount. Anyways, I hope the boards are faster tonight, and you get a chance to look at this more thoroughly. Unless I've made some stupid mistake (known to happen!), I think this can provide a very smooth, robust implementation of your revised rules for determining CR. [/QUOTE]

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