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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Kzach" data-source="post: 5573852" data-attributes="member: 56189">It kinda depends on your definition of 'heroic'. From your very brief OP, I'm gathering you mean 'well-trained and highly skilled' instead of 'well known and recognised for their heroic deeds'.If this is the case, then I most definitely prefer the well-trained and highly-skilled from 1st-level idea. In my mind, the PC's are NOT average people. Average people, even with the same amount of training, couldn't equal a PC in terms of raw power. And on top of that, I feel that to even GET that training, a person has to distinguish themselves as being above average. This is especially true if you're trying for a gritty, medieval feel to your setting.You can't just pick up a sword and swing it with the expectation of learning as you go. You'll be dead pretty quick if you try. This is why the nobility held power for so long. All they really had access to was training. Sure, they had access to weapons and armor as well, but anyone who tried hard enough could get themselves a sword and a bit of armor. But knowing how to swing that sword and move in that armor is a wholly different ball-game.And let's face it, who wants to sit around role-playing five or so years of apprenticeship training? PC's essentially have to have been trained from 9-10 years old to hope to be at the skill level of a 1st-level PC. And if you have a system where you are an 'everyman' at 1st-level, then it just ruins the whole idea of requiring that level of training in order to be remotely proficient.So I work off the assumption that whatever class the PC might be, they have been training for along time just to get to 1st-level. From 1st-level onwards, their progression is a result of using what they know and extending that knowledge in the field. But without that solid base, they're essentially just guessing their way through, and that is what separates (to use one system as an example but the essential element extends across any system), a minion or standard monster/NPC from a PC. Elites to me are the equivalent of a PC. Solos are just freaks of nature <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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