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<blockquote data-quote="Phil Best" data-source="post: 8583275" data-attributes="member: 7034581"><p>I've addressed this topic in a number of places, and it's always difficult, because most people who are not actively developing content for Foundry have faulty assumptions about how something like this will work, or what the consequences will be.</p><p></p><p>For example, here you talk about making the underlying data compatible with the 5e Foundry system, and your assumption is that this will allow existing 5e modules, particularly automation modules, to work with Level Up. That's simply not true. These modules rely on a great deal more than the underlying data model, and often rely on implementation details in various system document methods.</p><p></p><p>This causes some problems, because now we have to expand upon the 5e system functionality, while preserving the specific details required for these modules to work, while also keeping up with any changes to the 5e system as we go. Any changes we might make could break a module, and users of the system wouldn't know which modules are fully supported, kinda supported, or not supported at all as a result. The situation would be fluid. This isn't a good situation to be in, especially when the 5e system itself doesn't manage to preserve module compatibility from version to version, and they don't have this extra layer of compatibility to consider.</p><p></p><p>Creating a completely new system, with its own data model, was not a decision taken lightly, and the consequences were considered. Those consequences simply didn't outweigh the massive benefits we could gain by being free to make our own decisions about the system features. Solutions to any potential problems were also considered, of course. So what's the plan?</p><p></p><p>First, we want to provide a means of automatically migrating 5e content to Level Up. Data transformations like this are already done in the system when changes are made to our data model, and there's no reason we can't use a similar process to migrate from the 5e data model to the one used in the Level Up system. The challenge comes in handling all of the potential use cases. Some people are going to want to import individual Actors or Items, while other people may want to migrate a whole world. Some people are going to want to be able to use tools like the DDB importer, so there needs to be allowances for that.</p><p></p><p>Supporting 5e content is a big draw of the ruleset, so we should make efforts to fully support it in the system too. To this end, I'm also planning to provide a version of the 5e SRD content in a Level Up compatible compendium. This will be provided via a free content module.</p><p></p><p>Now let's move onto automation. The 5e system on Foundry is intentionally an extremely automation-light system, designed to match the feel of playing in person with a paper sheet. Modules heavily prop up the 5e system, providing a lot of features that are native to other systems. The Level Up system is going to be much more feature-rich than the 5e system, and already includes, at this early stage, a lot of functionality that the 5e system simply doesn't have.</p><p></p><p>We also already have modules being developed specifically for Level Up, mostly aimed at providing a suite of automation tools similar to those we find in modules for 5e. Some of these will be phased out as the core system develops; others will be added to expand functionality in other ways. The system is still very young, and the ecosystem needs time to develop.</p><p></p><p>I'll close by saying that a great many modules are system agnostic and work totally fine in the Level Up system already. Some people are running in excess of 80 modules with no compatibility issues to speak of. I'll also say that you shouldn't expect 5e automation modules to ever run in the Level Up system. Those are often extremely tightly bound to the 5e implementation, and even small changes can cause them to fail catastrophically. You should expect Level Up to have its own suit of tools, just like every other Foundry system, but, as I said, you should expect to need fewer modules in Level Up.</p><p></p><p>Hopefully, that addresses your questions and concerns <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Phil Best, post: 8583275, member: 7034581"] I've addressed this topic in a number of places, and it's always difficult, because most people who are not actively developing content for Foundry have faulty assumptions about how something like this will work, or what the consequences will be. For example, here you talk about making the underlying data compatible with the 5e Foundry system, and your assumption is that this will allow existing 5e modules, particularly automation modules, to work with Level Up. That's simply not true. These modules rely on a great deal more than the underlying data model, and often rely on implementation details in various system document methods. This causes some problems, because now we have to expand upon the 5e system functionality, while preserving the specific details required for these modules to work, while also keeping up with any changes to the 5e system as we go. Any changes we might make could break a module, and users of the system wouldn't know which modules are fully supported, kinda supported, or not supported at all as a result. The situation would be fluid. This isn't a good situation to be in, especially when the 5e system itself doesn't manage to preserve module compatibility from version to version, and they don't have this extra layer of compatibility to consider. Creating a completely new system, with its own data model, was not a decision taken lightly, and the consequences were considered. Those consequences simply didn't outweigh the massive benefits we could gain by being free to make our own decisions about the system features. Solutions to any potential problems were also considered, of course. So what's the plan? First, we want to provide a means of automatically migrating 5e content to Level Up. Data transformations like this are already done in the system when changes are made to our data model, and there's no reason we can't use a similar process to migrate from the 5e data model to the one used in the Level Up system. The challenge comes in handling all of the potential use cases. Some people are going to want to import individual Actors or Items, while other people may want to migrate a whole world. Some people are going to want to be able to use tools like the DDB importer, so there needs to be allowances for that. Supporting 5e content is a big draw of the ruleset, so we should make efforts to fully support it in the system too. To this end, I'm also planning to provide a version of the 5e SRD content in a Level Up compatible compendium. This will be provided via a free content module. Now let's move onto automation. The 5e system on Foundry is intentionally an extremely automation-light system, designed to match the feel of playing in person with a paper sheet. Modules heavily prop up the 5e system, providing a lot of features that are native to other systems. The Level Up system is going to be much more feature-rich than the 5e system, and already includes, at this early stage, a lot of functionality that the 5e system simply doesn't have. We also already have modules being developed specifically for Level Up, mostly aimed at providing a suite of automation tools similar to those we find in modules for 5e. Some of these will be phased out as the core system develops; others will be added to expand functionality in other ways. The system is still very young, and the ecosystem needs time to develop. I'll close by saying that a great many modules are system agnostic and work totally fine in the Level Up system already. Some people are running in excess of 80 modules with no compatibility issues to speak of. I'll also say that you shouldn't expect 5e automation modules to ever run in the Level Up system. Those are often extremely tightly bound to the 5e implementation, and even small changes can cause them to fail catastrophically. You should expect Level Up to have its own suit of tools, just like every other Foundry system, but, as I said, you should expect to need fewer modules in Level Up. Hopefully, that addresses your questions and concerns :) [/QUOTE]
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