Level Up (A5E) Level Up Playtest 1: Elves

[Haldrik]

@tetrasodium

Going by 5e Player Handbook stats.



The Athas Elf has an incongruency between its mechanics and flavor. Mechanically it is Dex-Int, but its flavor is Dex-Con. This kind of elf is tough, and able to marathon endlessly across vast distances in harsh environments. Nothing in the flavor suggests Intelligence flavor. Indeed, this "nomadic" culture is described as "savage" and "wild" "warriors", which comes across as possibly reallife racism against indigenous peoples. The text mentions in passing that the Athas Elf can be Psions and Preserver Wizards, but the culture needs its flavor to revolve around these mage classes for an Intelligence mechanic to make more sense.

That said, a hypothetical Level Up background, "Desert Nomad Mage", can typically relate to a wizard or psion, or an eldritch knight or a trickster rogue. It makes a fine background for an Athas elf, and works well in Forgotten Realms too.

The Athas elf has the fast speed of a wood elf.

The Athas elf has Stealth proficiency, and can surprise others when in nature, which seems similar to wood elf Mask of the Wild, while among rocks or dust.

The Athas elf has the typical weaponry, sword and bow.

In sum, the Athas elf seems like a 5e wood elf, except has access to boosts to Constitution, Dexterity, and Intelligence. High Constitution and Intelligence without Dexterity seems like it should also be possible.

I normally view wood elves as nomads, and these are desert nomads. In other settings, some wood elves migrated and adapted for life in great deserts. Same stats as Athas elf.

I would have the Athas flavor and mechanics emphasize magic via their psionics and wizardry, and delete any mundane classes. So they are eldritch knights and trickster rogues, instead of mundane fighters and rogues. Eldritch knights are also tough warriors.



It seems to me, the Athas elf doesnt really need special mechanics. It mostly needs access to Constitution, Dexterity, and Intelligence, which Level Up makes possible anyway.

 

[tetrasodium]

@Haldrik define "feywild" . Wotc takes pains to make clear that its all of this

Feywild

The Feywild, also known as the Plane of Faerie or simply Faerie, as well as Isan Meidan by the uldra, was an "echo" of the Prime Material Plane suffused with potent magic, and unrestrained emotions. It was the place from which fey originated, and from where the first elves arrived in Faerûn. The...

forgottenrealms.fandom.com

But that mostly is wildly inappropriate to some settings with tons of ill fitting fr specific baggage lore and tropes

Not every setting "has a feywild" though. Some have a distinct uniquely defined thing wotc decided to throw that label on while they went about building up a bunch of lore that does not fit that thing or the elves of that setting.

 

[Haldrik]

Not every setting "has a feywild" though. Some have a distinct uniquely defined thing wotc decided to throw that label on while they went about building up a bunch of lore that does not fit that thing or the elves of that setting.

There is a difference between the creature type "Fey" and the cosmological plane "Feywild".

A setting can use the creature type for related creatures with specific traits in common, without any reference to the plane.

A setting can also make "Feywild" be whatever land where Fey are prominent. It doesnt need to be Forgotten Realms.

In a modern setting, you can say the internet is the "Feywild", so the Feywild is a virtual reality.

 

[Haldrik]

So far we have discussed: Elf physical appearance, Elf beauty, Elf Charisma, Elf bards, the skyey solar "light elves" of the Scandinavian ethnicities, Elf traits, Elf Elf immortality, Elf height, Elf gifts, and the nature of the Feywild.

Here are the Elf paragon gifts. My general feeling is, the design space for the paragon gifts feels too small.

I would like something more like high level FEATS for each heritage, to continue developing the heritage concept in more powerful ways, at higher tiers of play. But the paragon gifts seem more like a "ribbon" worth about a skill proficiency. Generally, I am less thrilled with these paragon gifts.

Spoiler: Elf paragon gifts

Elven Paragon
When you reach 10th level, you are an exemplar of elfkind, and you gain one paragon gift from the following list.

Elfsight. Nature cannot block the legendary accuracy of your people. Your attack rolls ignore half cover, and an area being lightly obscured does not impose disadvantage on your ability checks. You do not take disadvantage for making ranged attacks at long range.

Inexorable Darkvision. There is no range limit for your Darkvision.

Spiritual Awareness. You are under a constant detect thoughts effect. You do not need to concentrate on this effect. This effect can be dispelled with dispel magic but it returns once you complete a short or long rest.

Elfsight is mainly a benefit for archers. The main benefit is ignoring half-cover, mainly for bow attacks. Not bad. Additionally it ignores light obscurement for ability checks, which seems situational. Finally, ignores disadvantage for long ranged attacks, which for a bow around 300 meters is normally too far away to be practical during game play. Essentially Elfsight is ribbons of differing degrees of utility. Probably, the elf character is better off taking the standard Sharpshooter feat, and the paragon benefits would be redundant if the character did. Because of the redundancy with Sharpshooter, probably delete this paragon feat from the options.

I would reuse the name "Elfsight" to mean the ability to sense and see magic auras, as mentioned above in the Elf heritage gift that I created above, currently called "Faierie" (which in Middle English originally means "magic" as well as "things pertaining to magic").

Inexorable Darkvision: except for the corner case of sniping at someone in the distance who cant see or reach the attacker, which seems powerful verging on broken, the Inexorable Darkvision that grants unlimited range, is moreorless useless. In most gameplay situations, it matters little whether someone can see 60 feet or 6 miles. Possibly even make normal Darkvision for darkdwellers unlimited at level 1, with light sensitivity. But scrutinize the sniping before doing so. Either way, I feel this paragon gift is deletable. Darkvision is neither powerful, nor elfy.

Finally, Spiritual Awareness. The Warlock has full-on telepathy at level 1, and few if any have ever complained about it being powerful. With two-way telepathy becoming an option that is available to any elf at level 1, this Spiritual Awareness ribbon at level 10, is useless.



Honestly, I would delete all three Elf paragon gifts, and start over from scratch.

Think about what high-tier elves should be doing.

I am thinking things like Fly at-will!

I especially want paragon gifts that are useful to spellcasters, to empower their elven magic.

Create a bigger design space, so that every heritage has something powerful and desirable to look forward to, when reaching a high tier (when most campaigns are about to end!).

There needs to be fun things that powerful elves should be able to do typically.

 

[tetrasodium]

There is a difference between the creature type "Fey" and the cosmological plane "Feywild".

A setting can use the creature type for related creatures with specific traits in common, without any reference to the plane.

A setting can also make "Feywild" be whatever land where Fey are prominent. It doesnt need to be Forgotten Realms.

In a modern setting, you can say the internet is the "Feywild", so the Feywild is a virtual reality.

It's great to say that, but it only works for one step. Once you start saying that x is tied to Y like so in #settingA & Z is the Y of $SettingB so X is tied to Z in the same way in $otherSetting or continue three & four plus steps out you are no longer converting something & just polluting settingB. It's meaningless to admit that " It doesn't need to be Forgotten Realms" while trying to explain how it really is just FR's if you squint & it is certainly ignoring the elephant in the room where wotc only talks about the super cross compatible FR/mystara feywild close to a hundred percent of the time.

Spoiler: These settings come with warning labels even!

Spoiler: darksun 2e

Spoiler: darksun 4e eight characteristics of athas

Spoiler: 3.5 ten things you need to know

Spoiler: eberron 4e 10 important facts

It was clear that people were looking at ten important facts & stopping at the first sentence of the first point so they were reworded to be more explicit

Spoiler: eberron 5e

The elves are different, the planar structure is different, the world baselines are different in many ways, the races are different, the fey are different. These settings have always made that clear from the start & they are not improved by dumping an entire marysue string of interconnected incompatible lore into the setting from some other setting as it in in that other setting. FR/Planescape is not harmed by other settings saying that things are different in their own crystal sphere, but those other settings are harmed when wotc & fans of fr/planescape insist on saying that $settingSpecificThing is that setting's $thingFromFR/Planescape so they can loredump entire lore chains as is from FR/Planescape.

Icewind Dale sorta bears some passing resemblance to the free city of Tyr if you squint & ignore a bunch of differences. FR is totally ready to import the whole cleansing wars kicked off by Rajaat & associated total genocide of multiple races along with his various champions( The sorcerer kings) complete with their power base no trouble right?

Waterdeep sorta bears some passing resemblance to Sharn in that they are both the highest population city in their setting waterdeep is just FR's sharn if you squint & ignore a bunch of differences. Waterdeep totally has skycoaches, mile high towers, dragonmarked houses complete with all of their lore & we all know that the dragonmarked houses played a big role in the last war so they did the same in FR with no harm to FR right?

 

[Haldrik]

It's great to say that, but it only works for one step. Once you start saying that x is tied to Y like so in #settingA & Z is the Y of $SettingB so X is tied to Z in the same way in $otherSetting or continue three & four plus steps out you are no longer converting something & just polluting settingB. It's meaningless to admit that " It doesn't need to be Forgotten Realms" while trying to explain how it really is just FR's if you squint & it is certainly ignoring the elephant in the room where wotc only talks about the super cross compatible FR/mystara feywild close to a hundred percent of the time.

Spoiler: These settings come with warning labels even!

Spoiler: darksun 2e

View attachment 126132
View attachment 126133

Spoiler: darksun 4e eight characteristics of athas

View attachment 126136
View attachment 126137

Spoiler: 3.5 ten things you need to know

View attachment 126130
View attachment 126131

Spoiler: eberron 4e 10 important facts

View attachment 126128
View attachment 126129

It was clear that people were looking at ten important facts & stopping at the first sentence of the first point so they were reworded to be more explicit

Spoiler: eberron 5e

View attachment 126126

The elves are different, the planar structure is different, the world baselines are different in many ways, the races are different, the fey are different. These settings have always made that clear from the start & they are not improved by dumping an entire marysue string of interconnected incompatible lore into the setting from some other setting as it in in that other setting. FR/Planescape is not harmed by other settings saying that things are different in their own crystal sphere, but those other settings are harmed when wotc & fans of fr/planescape insist on saying that $settingSpecificThing is that setting's $thingFromFR/Planescape so they can loredump entire lore chains as is from FR/Planescape.

Icewind Dale sorta bears some passing resemblance to the free city of Tyr if you squint & ignore a bunch of differences. FR is totally ready to import the whole cleansing wars kicked off by Rajaat & associated total genocide of multiple races along with his various champions( The sorcerer kings) complete with their power base no trouble right?

Waterdeep sorta bears some passing resemblance to Sharn in that they are both the highest population city in their setting waterdeep is just FR's sharn if you squint & ignore a bunch of differences. Waterdeep totally has skycoaches, mile high towers, dragonmarked houses complete with all of their lore & we all know that the dragonmarked houses played a big role in the last war so they did the same in FR with no harm to FR right?

Truly, I agree with your concerns.

For example, I myself get frustrated with the baked-in Forgotten Realms gods and the elves that are Dex. The baking makes the rules unsuitable for a different setting where gods dont exist and where the elves are Cha, Int, and Wis, without Dex.

Generally, most of the 5e rules dont bake in the flavor of the Feywild. I have concerns about whether the Feywild can be used for nature spirits, who need to be able to freely interact with humans in the Material Plane. But Feywild itself seems flexible enough. To define it as Dreaming, means humans and nature spirits interact with each other in a dreamlike way, via dreams (overnight at the outdoor location) or waking visions, or conjurations (apparitions). Essentially, the nature spirit in the Feywild must be able to see the humans who are in the Material Plane, thus be able to interact with the human if the nature spirit so chooses.

Personally, I havent found too much difficulty with the Feywild. At the same time, I try to avoid Forgotten Realms where possible.



@tetrasodium

As far as I can tell, your frustration is similar. You dislike when the rules come baked in with Forgotten Realms flavor. You mention how different Eberron and Dark Sun can be. Also, creating ones own homebrew setting is an important D&D tradition, and for some players this is the most important D&D tradition. To create new worlds. So obviously Forgotten Realms becomes a menace when baked into the core rules.

If you are telling me, you want Level Up! to write its rules in a way that is setting neutral, then I am telling you I agree.



I feel it is possible to for the Level Up rules to mention "fey" and "feywild", while only loosely suggesting that these relate to fate and magic, and without baking in a specific setting assumption.

 

[Haldrik]

Here are examples of Paragon Gifts that an elf should be able to choose at the "master tier" (levels 9-12):

• Spirit Journey (here understood as entering the Feywild while overlapping the Material Plane)
• Teleport 30 (Misty Step at will)
• Fly 30



A Norse elf can dematerialize and rematerize, then pass thru a keyhole. Actually, this elven insubstantiality is an example of what any Norse shaman can do, while projecting ones mind to travel on a shamanic spirit journey, incorporeally thru the Material Plane. The mind is insubstantial, but a strong mind can manifest ghostlike, in a quasi-real way that can interact with objects and even take or leave behind objects.

For D&D, the phenomena is better explained by psionics, with an incorporeal mind. But related D&D mechanics might be part of it. If the Feywild is a dreamscape, it is a mental aspect where minds can travel. Thus if minds are outofbody, then by definition, they might be understood be traveling in the mental Feywild. If so, the "veil" of the Feywild closely overlaps the Material Plane. There can also be a "deep" Feywild, which is layers and layers of dreams, or fairytale stories, or timelines of alternative presents and futures. But the "shallow" Feywild, namely the "veil", closely corresponds to the Material Plane. What exists in the Material also exists in the shallow of the Feywild.

The laws of physics for the veil closely resemble the physical laws of the Material Plane. For example, a person whose mind in the Feywild takes the form of a wolf travels across the ground like a material wolf would, and whose mind takes the form of a swan flies thru the air or swims across a water surface like a material swan would. Sometimes a strong mind in wolf form would actually leave paw prints and tear up soil in the Material Plane. A strong mind can manifest in a quasi-real way from the Feywild into the Material.

Where the Feywild overlaps the Material, any structures that exist in the Material Plane also exist in the Feywild. Thus if a human builds a house in the Material Plane, this house also exists in the veil of Feywild. The walls of the house behave normally, thus minds that are in the Feywild cannot pass thru the walls of the house. Moreover, the doors of the house can only be opened or closed from the Material Plane. A Fey mind would need to materialize to some degree to affect the door from within the Material Plane. In sum, even tho the spirit journey is insubstantial and mental, the form that the mind takes while in the Feywild behaves in every way that is normal for that form. A wolf form runs quickly, a bird form flies quickly, and a human form walks and manipulates object as normal for a human. A fish form is as if breathing water, even tho there is no actual water in the dreamscape of the Feywild.

It is possible for two shamans to project their mind outofbody, traveling across the Material Plane via the Feywild. One is in the form of a bear and the other is in the form of a bull, and in the Feywild, they fight each other as the animals would, and this spiritual battle between these powerful minds, would leave evidence in the Material Plane of their fight, such as torn plants and foot prints.

The elf who is dematerializing and rematerializing: interestingly, the elf cannot pass thru the wall or the door, but must path thru the open hole of the keyhole.

In D&D, the Misty Step spell explains both how the elf vanishes and reappears, and even explains how the elf passes thru the keyhole. Misty Step can look thru the keyhole to see the area on the other side of the door, thus teleport in line of sight to the other side.

Relatedly, elves live in the sky, hovering in midair, mostly in the pure sunlit air above the cloud level, but also among the clouds and below wherever the sunrays shine. In some sense, the elves must be able to fly. But they dont seem to fly fast, and prefer to take the form of a swan or other bird to move more expediently.



Paragon Gifts

• Spirit Journey (You can shift between the Feywild Plane and the Material Plane per long rest. You can see from the plane that you are in into the other plane, and your body can interact with the other plane as if with the Mage Hand cantrip. You feel the sense of touch. Your feet in one plane can leave foot prints in the other plane, your hands can hold a Tiny object, and so on. Any object held this way can be taken from the other plane to your current plane, or deposited from your current plane into the other plane. If you have methods to do so, you can interact with any minds whether Fey or Material.)

• Teleport 30 (You gain Misty Step at will.) (Also compare certain eladrin in the 4e Monster Manuals with a teleport speed 30 feet, representing Misty Step at will.)

• Fly 30 (You gain Fly 30 and can hover. You travel at normal human speeds for walking or running in any direction. You can choose whether to appear to walk on air or to float across it.) (Also compare certain eladrin in the 4e Monster Manuals with a fly speed.)

 

[Haldrik]

Scottish Elves

In Scottish traditions, the elf is often called a "sith" (relating to Irish sidhe) and is a kind of "fairy" (relating to French faie). However, where there are many kinds of fairy creatures, the "elf" specifies the kind that looks human and is human-sized. These elves often live invisibly alongside human communities.

The Scottish belief in elves emerges during the Medieval Era from a fusion of earlier nature spirits, including Celtic sidhe, French faie, and Norse alfr. The belief in "elves" (specifically by name) ends before the 1800s. But the Scottish belief in other kinds of fairies persists, especially the tiny sprites and large spooks. Scots continue to sight human-like fairies. In more recent times, Scots sometimes use the terms "fairy", "sith", and "elf" interchangeably for any kind of these later fairies. Here in this post, the earlier sense of "elf" to mean the human-like "sith" is in use.

There is information about Scottish elves from Scottish folklore, songs, and poems. Some concepts seem to survive in the later folklore about other kinds of fairies. Analogous concepts from neighboring ethnicities are sometimes useful, if cautiously compared while mindful of differences.

The Scottish witch trials include legal documents that record interviews of accused witches about their belief in elves. The Scottish witch seems mainly shamanic, learning their spiritual skills from encounters with elves, who are a kind of nature spirit.

A recurring theme is the awakening of latent magical powers, while a witch has a lucid dream (or a waking vision) that encounters an elf. The dreamy encounter is often enchantingly sexual or spookily terrifying, or both. This links the concepts of nightmare, succubus, incubus, and wetdream, with spiritual experiences, and shamanic practices and elves. (Some speculate, the father of Merlin, that is called an incubus is actually an elf, relating to this shamanic practice.) The witches and the elves may be male or female.

Like the Norse elves, the Scottish elves appear as superhumanly beautiful humans, stunning, and enchantingly charming. The hair of the sith is often red or black, like the Scots themselves.

The Scottish elves are spiritual beings, and are compared to "shadows" that have no substance but do have form. These spirits roam incorporeally, thru the landscape and thru dreams.

Yet these "shadows" can be insanely strong. Their superhuman strength is precisely unnatural. Supernatural.

The prehistoric flint blades that are found across Scotland and Ireland, were understood to be the products of elven invisible spiritual arrows, called an elfshot. Elves would shoot cattle with these arrows, to injure them with illness. Among humans, elfshot associates with mysterious sudden pains and even a paralyzing cerebral stroke.

The relationship between the elves and the fairy courts remains unclear to me, but it appears the Scottish elves divide themselves into the "seelie court" (blessed) and the "unseelie court" (unblessed). If so, the unseelie court includes beautiful human-appearing spirits. The seelie court is called "good", and the unseelie court is called "wicked". This resembles the Norse distinction between elves (light elves) and dwarves (dark elves). The seelie court is credited with the helpful aspects of nature, such as giving the resources for food, shelter, and comfort, as well as teaching humans healing and magic. The unseelie court is credited with the more harmful aspects of nature, such as illnesses, natural hazards, and eerie hauntings. Some traditions suggest the unseelie court includes malevolent undead humans among them. In this way, the evil actions of elves such as harming cattle appears to be blamed on the unseelie elves.

Generally, the Scottish elf tends to be the "good" helpful kind of nature spirit. But it can be vengeful if offended. Some traditions view the elf as neutral, neither good nor evil. Compared to the Christian concept of angels, the Scots admitted that the elves are less than perfectly ethically good. Indeed, some elves were cruel. But the Scots likewise denied that elves are truly evil, and often rejected their identification as demons or devils or fallen angels, which speculative Christian theology sometimes suggested. One theology suggested the Elf Queen is a feminine form of the satan, in an effort to connect Scottish elven witchcraft to German devilish witchcraft. But the Scottish witches themselves denied such an identification. And even this speculation seemed to admit that the other elves besides the queen were not evil. One theology suggested, in the war between angels and devils, elves were formerly angels that declared neutrality. And so on with other attempts to reconcile the Christian worldview versus an animistic worldview that defied such ethical polarization.

The Scottish elven government is a monarchy, ruled by the Elf Queen. Presumably, she is identical to the Fairy Queen of the seelie court. Indeed, the Fairy Queen is usually visualized as being the size of a human, hence is an elf. A legal formulation is that if the Elf Queen divorces her king, it is she who remains queen. This clarifies that it is she who is sovereign, not her husband. The human monarchies of the British Isles are mostly patriarchal. The matriarchal monarchy of the Scottish elves is notable. The legal clarification, along with the sexual nature of many elven spiritual encounters, sometimes assumes the Elf Queen has many consorts.

The sith are land spirits who especially associate with fairy mounds near areas of vigorous plant life, such as thickets of trees. Sith tend to live near humans, albeit invisibly within the spirit realm. These elves are nature spirits of the soil surface, and dwell in the "between" space, between above ground and below ground. Each in its own way, a mound and a cave are simultaneously above and below ground. Thus these two landscape features are entrances where the elves can enter the material world of humans.



For D&D

Sith elf (Medium Fey Humanoid)

The sith elves are spirits of the immaterial Feywild Plane, especially as a realm of dreaming. Often they dwell near where the Feywild overlaps a human community in the Material Plane. Sith are typically active nocturnally, while humans are dreaming. They possess darkvision able to see at night and underground without illumination.

The sith elves are magically beautiful, but otherwise resemble humans.

These elves tend toward high Charisma and Strength. Charisma skills include charming Persuasion and spooky Intimidation.

All sith are mages, wielding magic, teaching magic, even awakening latent magical abilities. Most sith seem to be Charisma fey warlocks. A powerful sith can be a patron for an other fey warlock. Sith are known for healing abilities, and along with their Strength, are fine "green knights", paladins of the ancients. Most sith are loyal to the seelie court. A hexblade seems thematically appropriate for an unseelie elf, albeit dedicated to the unseelie court, rather than the Raven Queen.

Sith elves are typically Neutral alignment, but are often Neutral Good or Neutral Evil if members of the seelie court or the unseelie court, respectively.



Elfshot
Evocation
Level: Cantrip
Casting time: 1 action
Range: 1000 feet
Components: S
Duration: Instantaneous

You wield an invisible bow and arrow, inflicting mysterious pain on impact. Make a ranged spell attack at a creature within range. On a hit, the target takes 1d8 psychic damage. If the targeted creature is reduced to 0 hit points and dies, it becomes paralyzed instead, and stabilizes at 1 hit point. A flint arrowhead appears on the ground near the paralyzed creature.

At level 5, you can shoot two arrows.
At level 11, you can shoot three arrows.
At level 17, you can shoot four arrows.

You can aim the arrows at the same target or different ones, make a separate roll for each.