Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition (A5E)
Level Up Playtest Document #13: Cleric
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Faolyn" data-source="post: 8227394" data-attributes="member: 6915329"><p>Thoughts time!</p><p></p><p>"No matter their religion or cause, a cleric is distinct from the average worshiper and even those at the highest echelons of its hierarchy."</p><p></p><p>This is one of those things that's been floating around D&D forever, but also something that doesn't get explained very well. In a setting where magic is relatively common <em>and </em>the gods or their representatives can be communicated with (relatively) easily, why <em>wouldn't </em>a higher-level cleric rise to higher levels of power as well? The high-level cleric is clearly <em>more blessed </em>by their god(s) than someone who is really good at bureaucracy and gladhanding and the like but can only cast low-level spells, or has no magic whatsoever?</p><p></p><p>I just realized that this is only the second playtest class that has a level where you get no features (the other one being Adept). Shocking!</p><p></p><p><strong>Vows:</strong> You need to expand on what these mean in terms of gameplay. Does Severity mean I can't heal people? Does Mercy mean I get bonuses on <em>all </em>my death saves after the first two, or just the third one because you have to make three saves to stabilize on your own? How much <em>can </em>I have if I take Poverty?</p><p></p><p>A suggestion for other vows: No intoxicants (bonus to avoid being poisoned); No meat (bonus to rolls to deal positively with animals); No lying (bonus to Persuasion). Providing succor to those who ask for it (potential allies?)</p><p></p><p>IMO, the Poverty one is a bit weird. You have no money, so other people are compelled to give you a discount. Not only does 20% off not help you if you have no money (if your allies pay for you, do they get the discount? And if your allies pay for you, does that count as poverty?) but so much for free will... It seems more likely that people would be willing to give you leftovers, scraps, and other unsold product, rather than just offer a discount.</p><p></p><p>Also, what happens if you break your vow? </p><p></p><p><strong>Sacred Office: </strong>I seriously dislike the whole Outcast one. First off, if you're really going against your church, then why isn't your god stepping in? Again, in a setting where the gods are distant, this makes sense, but in a more typical setting, this doesn't. Secondly, pious people won't like you (apparently people are less likely to go from orthodox to reformed in this setting), but community leaders <em>will </em>like you? What if the community leader is pious?</p><p></p><p>I suggest getting rid of Outcast and replacing it with Sectarian. You have become part of an offshoot of the faith. It's small and probably disliked by the main faith, but it's not considered heretical or blasphemous (i.e., the church won't hunt you down). Other members of the Sect are going to be very friendly to you and will be willing to go above and beyond for you. Members of other Sects, and possibly of the main faith, who are otherwise indifferent to you are more likely to be hostile.</p><p></p><p>Another possible Sacred Office: Sin-Eater, Exorcist, Curse-Master. People come to you with their problems, which are often supernatural and dangerous in origin. They don't always have much or even anything to offer you in return, but by gods its your duty to solve them. As a result, you can get small communities to really love you when you succeed.</p><p></p><p>(I'll try to put this in the survey, but it's hard in 500 characters or fewer.)</p><p></p><p><strong>Command Undead: </strong>OK, so an intelligent undead won't do anything clearly harmful, but what about skeletons, zombies, and other "mindless" undead?</p><p></p><p><strong>Turn Ideology/Turn Supernatural: </strong>Do these two stack in any way? If I can turn Chaotic creatures and can turn Fey, do I have any particular bonuses when turning Chaotic Fey? And suggestion, if you haven't already planned for it: Command Ideology or Supernatural, with a high level prereq.</p><p></p><p>Speaking of, I hope you explain what the alignment traits mean as game terms. Alignment doesn't seem to be a thing anymore (yay!). At least, your green dragon preview doesn't seem to have an alignment, but I have old eyes so I could be missing it. Is alignment just a tag now?</p><p></p><p><strong>Eyes of Heart: </strong>This is a cool power but seems clumsily written. Maybe if you critically succeed/succeed by 5 or more (or is that a type of crit now? I can't remember).</p><p></p><p><strong>Spiritual Salve: </strong>"Your constant encouragements and proverbs allow allies within 30 feet..." Darnit, now I'll need to find a Random Proverb Generator. Maybe I can repurpose that Chopak Bot. Seriously, though, I like this power.</p><p></p><p>I will say the Sacred Presence feature feels very good-aligned. I kind of want to see an evil version. Like, your presence riles people up, makes them more willing to follow you into danger or get in fights with someone, if you want them to.</p><p></p><p><strong>Divine Intervention: </strong>"After each failed divine intervention roll, add 1 to the number required to succeed until it is a success, at which point it resets..." Does this mean it gets <em>easier </em>to have your prayers answered? It looks like it, but I'm not sure.</p><p></p><p><strong>Knacks: </strong>Again, they don't feel very explorer-y--maybe I was spoiled by all the climbing and surviving knacks from the first playtests. That being said, I really like them all. They definitely feel very clerical in nature.</p><p></p><p><strong>Preservation: </strong>This one is too powerful, unless you got rid of the <em>detect poison and disease </em>spell. Give this one a minimum lavel prereq or require the cleric to spend their action focused on the food or drink, unless you want players touching everything before the party eats.</p><p></p><p><strong>Righteous Path: </strong>This one needs some explaining. Does it mean literal walking? Can you stop walking and take a break?</p><p></p><p><strong>Supernatural Intuition:</strong> Like Preservation, but more so (my warlock in my current game has become the <em>detect evil and good</em>-bot, and that spell slot better count for something!). It should require <em>something </em>to activate--maybe spending their action focusing, or comparing the cleric's passive Per to the creature's passive Deception or something like that.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Faolyn, post: 8227394, member: 6915329"] Thoughts time! "No matter their religion or cause, a cleric is distinct from the average worshiper and even those at the highest echelons of its hierarchy." This is one of those things that's been floating around D&D forever, but also something that doesn't get explained very well. In a setting where magic is relatively common [I]and [/I]the gods or their representatives can be communicated with (relatively) easily, why [I]wouldn't [/I]a higher-level cleric rise to higher levels of power as well? The high-level cleric is clearly [I]more blessed [/I]by their god(s) than someone who is really good at bureaucracy and gladhanding and the like but can only cast low-level spells, or has no magic whatsoever? I just realized that this is only the second playtest class that has a level where you get no features (the other one being Adept). Shocking! [B]Vows:[/B] You need to expand on what these mean in terms of gameplay. Does Severity mean I can't heal people? Does Mercy mean I get bonuses on [I]all [/I]my death saves after the first two, or just the third one because you have to make three saves to stabilize on your own? How much [I]can [/I]I have if I take Poverty? A suggestion for other vows: No intoxicants (bonus to avoid being poisoned); No meat (bonus to rolls to deal positively with animals); No lying (bonus to Persuasion). Providing succor to those who ask for it (potential allies?) IMO, the Poverty one is a bit weird. You have no money, so other people are compelled to give you a discount. Not only does 20% off not help you if you have no money (if your allies pay for you, do they get the discount? And if your allies pay for you, does that count as poverty?) but so much for free will... It seems more likely that people would be willing to give you leftovers, scraps, and other unsold product, rather than just offer a discount. Also, what happens if you break your vow? [B]Sacred Office: [/B]I seriously dislike the whole Outcast one. First off, if you're really going against your church, then why isn't your god stepping in? Again, in a setting where the gods are distant, this makes sense, but in a more typical setting, this doesn't. Secondly, pious people won't like you (apparently people are less likely to go from orthodox to reformed in this setting), but community leaders [I]will [/I]like you? What if the community leader is pious? I suggest getting rid of Outcast and replacing it with Sectarian. You have become part of an offshoot of the faith. It's small and probably disliked by the main faith, but it's not considered heretical or blasphemous (i.e., the church won't hunt you down). Other members of the Sect are going to be very friendly to you and will be willing to go above and beyond for you. Members of other Sects, and possibly of the main faith, who are otherwise indifferent to you are more likely to be hostile. Another possible Sacred Office: Sin-Eater, Exorcist, Curse-Master. People come to you with their problems, which are often supernatural and dangerous in origin. They don't always have much or even anything to offer you in return, but by gods its your duty to solve them. As a result, you can get small communities to really love you when you succeed. (I'll try to put this in the survey, but it's hard in 500 characters or fewer.) [B]Command Undead: [/B]OK, so an intelligent undead won't do anything clearly harmful, but what about skeletons, zombies, and other "mindless" undead? [B]Turn Ideology/Turn Supernatural: [/B]Do these two stack in any way? If I can turn Chaotic creatures and can turn Fey, do I have any particular bonuses when turning Chaotic Fey? And suggestion, if you haven't already planned for it: Command Ideology or Supernatural, with a high level prereq. Speaking of, I hope you explain what the alignment traits mean as game terms. Alignment doesn't seem to be a thing anymore (yay!). At least, your green dragon preview doesn't seem to have an alignment, but I have old eyes so I could be missing it. Is alignment just a tag now? [B]Eyes of Heart: [/B]This is a cool power but seems clumsily written. Maybe if you critically succeed/succeed by 5 or more (or is that a type of crit now? I can't remember). [B]Spiritual Salve: [/B]"Your constant encouragements and proverbs allow allies within 30 feet..." Darnit, now I'll need to find a Random Proverb Generator. Maybe I can repurpose that Chopak Bot. Seriously, though, I like this power. I will say the Sacred Presence feature feels very good-aligned. I kind of want to see an evil version. Like, your presence riles people up, makes them more willing to follow you into danger or get in fights with someone, if you want them to. [B]Divine Intervention: [/B]"After each failed divine intervention roll, add 1 to the number required to succeed until it is a success, at which point it resets..." Does this mean it gets [I]easier [/I]to have your prayers answered? It looks like it, but I'm not sure. [B]Knacks: [/B]Again, they don't feel very explorer-y--maybe I was spoiled by all the climbing and surviving knacks from the first playtests. That being said, I really like them all. They definitely feel very clerical in nature. [B]Preservation: [/B]This one is too powerful, unless you got rid of the [I]detect poison and disease [/I]spell. Give this one a minimum lavel prereq or require the cleric to spend their action focused on the food or drink, unless you want players touching everything before the party eats. [B]Righteous Path: [/B]This one needs some explaining. Does it mean literal walking? Can you stop walking and take a break? [B]Supernatural Intuition:[/B] Like Preservation, but more so (my warlock in my current game has become the [I]detect evil and good[/I]-bot, and that spell slot better count for something!). It should require [I]something [/I]to activate--maybe spending their action focusing, or comparing the cleric's passive Per to the creature's passive Deception or something like that. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition (A5E)
Level Up Playtest Document #13: Cleric
Top