Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition (A5E)
Level Up Playtest Document #3: Rogue
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Faolyn" data-source="post: 8100958" data-attributes="member: 6915329"><p><strong>A suggestion: </strong>a lot of people use the Rogue as a stand-in for nonmagical expert (since Bards, the other good choice for Expert, are very magical). This version very much limits the skills you can get to thiefy skills. Perhaps include an option under Shrewd Judgement or an Exploration Knack that allows for proficiency or expertise dice in other Int or Wis skills, or in other tool sets. (I'll include this when the survey is out).</p><p></p><p>To go with this, perhaps you get X number of Expertise dice based on your level and you can apply them to whatever skill you want, whenever you want. And traits like Distraction give you a dedicated Expertise die. So if you wanted to spend another Expertise die on Performance, you would increase the die size to d6.</p><p></p><p>--</p><p></p><p>Sadly, I can't truly recreate my 5th-level rogue/1st-level fighter, because she's actually a professional duelist; i.e., a Swashbuckler (and so far, Level Up hasn't included anything like Levestus tieflings), but here goes:</p><p></p><p><strong>Exploration Knack:</strong> I get three of them. Sadly, my character is a bit of a flake (chaotic neutral) and not particularly observant, so no knacks that improve those traits. I'm going to take Agile Athlete, Expertise Training (Acrobatics), and Tuck and Roll.</p><p></p><p>By the way, how many knacks are going to be available by 20th level? Because it's five at 10 level, but there are only ten knacks. I know most games don't go up to 20th level, or even 15th level, but I'd hope that you wouldn't get <em>every </em>available knack eventually.</p><p></p><p><strong>Combat Tactic:</strong> Aaaand none of these really fit my character: as a Swashbuckler, she gets her sneak attacks in 1v1 combat, not from hiding, and the Dueling fighting style she took from being a fighter makes her use one weapon (rapier) not two (rapier-and-dagger). I know that's niche because she's multiclassed, though. I guess I'll take Carver.</p><p></p><p>I dislike Ambusher. You already get advantage when attacking from hiding, and you lose that benefit when you attack because you reveal yourself. This tactic both negates that <em>and </em>gives you a huge bonus for an entire round.</p><p></p><p><strong>Martial Maneuver: </strong>I'm slightly confused. Do I get to pick two maneuvers from any of those three traditions, or do I get to pick two out of the three traditions to choose maneuvers from? Anyway, I'll take Deft Feint, Feinting Assault, and Eye Slash.</p><p></p><p><strong>Innocent Facade: </strong>It's bugging the heck out of me that you forgot the cedilla (here you go: <em>fa<strong>ç</strong>ade</em>... did I mention I'm an Aspie?). But my character. Remember how I said she was unobservant and flaky? We were exploring a wrecked house in an incredibly poor part of town. The city was completely ignoring the place and leaving dangerous, burnt-out ruined buildings behind. I found a locked box and decided to open it. Turns out, I forgot that Rogues were pretty MAD and dumped Int ('twas a 10) and didn't have any skill in Investigation. So I didn't find the trap (a <em>glyph of warding</em>, I believe). Then I rolled a 1 on my Sleight of Hand to pick the lock. <em><strong>Boom!</strong></em> Fireball, totally destroyed the wrecked house and set fire to the surrounding buildings. All of the destitute neighbors came a-runnin'. What's going on?! I decided to put the blame on the extremely nearby wizard's university--they're chucking spells right and left, not caring whose house they're destroying! They're to blame! Down with the wizards! Rolled either Deception or Persuasion, can't remember which. Got a nat 20. Started a riot that ended up razing a couple of city blocks. I was a pleased chaotic neutral rogue that day. Now the city would have no choice but to remove the hazardous wreckage and rebuild!</p><p></p><p>What I mean to say is, Distraction is the perfect Innocent Façade for my character here.</p><p></p><p><strong>Improved Critical: </strong>No. No, no no. Rogues should not get a dedicated Improved Critical when <em>fighters</em> don't. Limit this to sneak attacks only, or put it at a higher level, or get rid of it entirely.</p><p></p><p>That's it for Rogue... but my character is multiclassed. Let's see how that works. At the moment, I have to assume that I get the Exploration Knack, Fighting Style, and two Maneuvers.</p><p></p><p><strong>Fighter Style: </strong>Duelist, of course. The prime reason I multiclassed, in fact.</p><p></p><p><strong>Exploration Knack: </strong>It doesn't quite fit, but I'll take Extreme Leap.</p><p></p><p><strong>Maneuvers:</strong> Hey, I just realized I read this wrong before--you can potentially gain <em>multiple </em>Combat Traditions. How did I miss that? So I'll take Rapid Current Razor's Edge, and Mirror's Glint. And for the maneuvers I get, I'll take Warning Strike and Dangerous Strikes.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Faolyn, post: 8100958, member: 6915329"] [B]A suggestion: [/B]a lot of people use the Rogue as a stand-in for nonmagical expert (since Bards, the other good choice for Expert, are very magical). This version very much limits the skills you can get to thiefy skills. Perhaps include an option under Shrewd Judgement or an Exploration Knack that allows for proficiency or expertise dice in other Int or Wis skills, or in other tool sets. (I'll include this when the survey is out). To go with this, perhaps you get X number of Expertise dice based on your level and you can apply them to whatever skill you want, whenever you want. And traits like Distraction give you a dedicated Expertise die. So if you wanted to spend another Expertise die on Performance, you would increase the die size to d6. -- Sadly, I can't truly recreate my 5th-level rogue/1st-level fighter, because she's actually a professional duelist; i.e., a Swashbuckler (and so far, Level Up hasn't included anything like Levestus tieflings), but here goes: [B]Exploration Knack:[/B] I get three of them. Sadly, my character is a bit of a flake (chaotic neutral) and not particularly observant, so no knacks that improve those traits. I'm going to take Agile Athlete, Expertise Training (Acrobatics), and Tuck and Roll. By the way, how many knacks are going to be available by 20th level? Because it's five at 10 level, but there are only ten knacks. I know most games don't go up to 20th level, or even 15th level, but I'd hope that you wouldn't get [I]every [/I]available knack eventually. [B]Combat Tactic:[/B] Aaaand none of these really fit my character: as a Swashbuckler, she gets her sneak attacks in 1v1 combat, not from hiding, and the Dueling fighting style she took from being a fighter makes her use one weapon (rapier) not two (rapier-and-dagger). I know that's niche because she's multiclassed, though. I guess I'll take Carver. I dislike Ambusher. You already get advantage when attacking from hiding, and you lose that benefit when you attack because you reveal yourself. This tactic both negates that [I]and [/I]gives you a huge bonus for an entire round. [B]Martial Maneuver: [/B]I'm slightly confused. Do I get to pick two maneuvers from any of those three traditions, or do I get to pick two out of the three traditions to choose maneuvers from? Anyway, I'll take Deft Feint, Feinting Assault, and Eye Slash. [B]Innocent Facade: [/B]It's bugging the heck out of me that you forgot the cedilla (here you go: [I]fa[B]ç[/B]ade[/I]... did I mention I'm an Aspie?). But my character. Remember how I said she was unobservant and flaky? We were exploring a wrecked house in an incredibly poor part of town. The city was completely ignoring the place and leaving dangerous, burnt-out ruined buildings behind. I found a locked box and decided to open it. Turns out, I forgot that Rogues were pretty MAD and dumped Int ('twas a 10) and didn't have any skill in Investigation. So I didn't find the trap (a [I]glyph of warding[/I], I believe). Then I rolled a 1 on my Sleight of Hand to pick the lock. [I][B]Boom![/B][/I] Fireball, totally destroyed the wrecked house and set fire to the surrounding buildings. All of the destitute neighbors came a-runnin'. What's going on?! I decided to put the blame on the extremely nearby wizard's university--they're chucking spells right and left, not caring whose house they're destroying! They're to blame! Down with the wizards! Rolled either Deception or Persuasion, can't remember which. Got a nat 20. Started a riot that ended up razing a couple of city blocks. I was a pleased chaotic neutral rogue that day. Now the city would have no choice but to remove the hazardous wreckage and rebuild! What I mean to say is, Distraction is the perfect Innocent Façade for my character here. [B]Improved Critical: [/B]No. No, no no. Rogues should not get a dedicated Improved Critical when [I]fighters[/I] don't. Limit this to sneak attacks only, or put it at a higher level, or get rid of it entirely. That's it for Rogue... but my character is multiclassed. Let's see how that works. At the moment, I have to assume that I get the Exploration Knack, Fighting Style, and two Maneuvers. [B]Fighter Style: [/B]Duelist, of course. The prime reason I multiclassed, in fact. [B]Exploration Knack: [/B]It doesn't quite fit, but I'll take Extreme Leap. [B]Maneuvers:[/B] Hey, I just realized I read this wrong before--you can potentially gain [I]multiple [/I]Combat Traditions. How did I miss that? So I'll take Rapid Current Razor's Edge, and Mirror's Glint. And for the maneuvers I get, I'll take Warning Strike and Dangerous Strikes. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition (A5E)
Level Up Playtest Document #3: Rogue
Top