Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 8108934" data-attributes="member: 93670">This version seems extrordinarily weak compared to the fighter & rogue we have seen, but it's really difficult to judge without the spell list, is there any estimate on when we might start seeing some of that?.  This new version has limited spellcasting with "While in a wild shape you may only cast spells with a range of Self or Touch, and you can’t cast spells that deal damage or inﬂict conditions.", but that's basically barkskin, darkvision, guidance, longstrider, & stoneskin with every single one of those crippled by concentration."Embraced ferocity sounds great getting 1d8*cr temphp sounds great until you consider that the CR shifts to getting access to CR2 at level 8 when 2d8 temphp is almost meaningless & thr beast form itself will be absolute trash against opponents being faced by a level 8-10 party A level 10 moon druid is going to have cr3 creatures till 12 when they unlock cr4 ones, but one batch of 3d8 & 4d8 temp hp  is only a hit or two at those levels compared to something like the rogue's defense styles that are usable every round as a reaction.The AC bump in wildshape sounds cool & all, but there are two factors there.  Firat is that a lot of classes will trivially have equal or better AC at level 1 in their starting gear even compared to the level 8 cr2 awakened tree.  Second is just how bad beast/plant creatures are.  Take the awakened tree[ATTACH=full]127553[/ATTACH]6 to hit with 2d6+4 nonmagic bludgeoning damage at level 8?...  Sure that might sound impressive for a caster, until you consider that a level 5 fighter in plate with a greatsword & 18 strength  has had 2d6+4 & +6 to hit since level 4 when he bumped strength from 16 to 18 is going to have +7 to hit on two attacks that each deal 2d6+4 two levels earlier and a bunch of maneuvers assuming that fighter has not found even a +1 greatsword by now or just how badly concentration & thenaturalSpell-esque casting limitations restrict the use of their spell list.  Yes Moon druid would improve some of that by replacing wildshape but now they can't have magic armor adjust to barding and don't have anything like their beast form's gear merge into the base form like vice versa.  I realize that it can be hard to index druid wildshapes but dndbeyond has a <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters?filter-type=0&filter-type=2&filter-search=&filter-cr-min=&filter-cr-max=&filter-armor-class-min=&filter-armor-class-max=&filter-average-hp-min=&filter-average-hp-max=&filter-is-legendary=&filter-is-mythic=&filter-has-lair=" target="_blank">list </a>& <a href="https://www.dropbox.com/s/into3fjtagtyd1f/druid%20tome%20full%20122%20Size-A5pg.pdf?dl=0" target="_blank">here </a>is a pdf compellation of the available forms from all of 5e till fairly recent  It's not like a moon druid is trading that grey area for cr3 & up beasts mislabeled as monstrosities & they don't have any spells worth casting in wildshape that meet the allowed requirements in their core list.The metal armor grey area wording is cleared up, but that used to be because barkskin worked like this[ATTACH=full]127554[/ATTACH]with natural armor stacking with actual armor, it's +whatever, and spells like shield being almost impossible to get otherwise. rather than this trash[ATTACH=full]127555[/ATTACH]A lot of classes have starting gear with ac16 and no concentration requirements, spell slot usage, or duration on it...  To add insult to injury "you are never proﬁcient with metal armors or shields." literally nullifies feats and proficiencies gained through multiclassing.  Either this is a medium armor class or it's not because "ask your gm if something other than dragonscale armor exists let alone if you can purchase it" is hardly reasonable.  If some custom not metal medium armor exists the gm who created it can do the same thing as elven chain & waive the proficiency requirement.  Weapons are enumerated individually, what is the point of this metal armor song & dance over "The wooden shield you start with or buy at the shop, padded, leather, LOL:hide,dragoncale, & askYourGm"?  I'm not even sure how/if "more distinct weapons and armor" will affect this either.Even within the  knacks to other knacks it feels off.  Compare Mountain climber the rogue's agile athlete[ATTACH=full]127556[/ATTACH]Agile athlete gives you a nice expertise die on athletics checks.  Mountain climber gives you a ribbon not likely to come up ever by letting you be acclimated to high altitudes above 20,000 feet?...  This is like the high altitude version of "I'm running an underwater campaign is be sure you can breathe water or you can't play that character" except you might use the ability t breathe underwater to cross a body of water or something in a regular campaignembraced serenity will make land/dreams/shepherd druids better, but without the new spell list I don't know how to judge thatThe druid is balanced as if it's a medium armor caster with a natural armor barkskin ac bump & very powerful spell list that created the CoDzilla, but I went into barkskin earlier & concentration absolutely cripples the druid spell list into something far from even powerful let alone capable of standing in the shade of the CodZilla.[spoiler="phb concetration druid spells"][ATTACH=full]127558[/ATTACH][/spoiler][spoiler="xge concentration druid spells"][ATTACH=full]127559[/ATTACH][ATTACH=full]127560[/ATTACH][/spoiler]I feel like I'm being very negative and maybe too much so... but I don't feel like I'm capable of judging this with the a5e stuff we have so far & if I sub in core stuff the results are pretty bad.  Without at least some broad strokes from the missing bits a survey would likely have a lot of very low numbers that are maybe undeserved just because what we have is practically trying to judge the quality of "A gourmet chocolate cake contains oil flour and... $missingPage" compared to "prepackaged cake mix."  Who knows, maybe this will simmer across a few brain cells & seem better in a day or so.</blockquote>

Verification