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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Faolyn" data-source="post: 8109652" data-attributes="member: 6915329">Well, as Tetrasodium pointed out, there's already three knacks involving climbing, and that are quite similar, although not identical. Let me look at the knacks we've been given so far (and knowing nothing of what's going to be in the next nine playtest packets) (spoilered for length):[SPOILER="A look at knacks"][/spoiler][SPOILER="A look at knacks"]Fighter KnacksAmphibious Combatant: Swim speed, spend 1 exertion to reroll a failed Athletics check, and can add proficiency bonus bonus to the number of minutes you can hold your breath, can spend 1 exertion to add +1 minute.I think this could be given to rangers as well.Burst of Strength: Can add Prof bonus to your Strength check 1/rest.I think this could be given to barbarians as well.Campaigner: Adds prof bonus to Strength to determine carrying capacity and the number of hours you can force-march.This feels very soldier-y. I suppose you could also give it to barbarians (because they're so mighty), but it would be fine as fighter-only.Extreme Leap: When you Dash, your jump distance is double; can spend 1 exertion to triple it.I think this could be given to barbarians and rangers as well.Mountaineer: Climb speed, sped 1 exertion to reroll a failed Athletics check, moving through nonmagical difficult terrain doesn't cost extra movement.As Tetrasodium pointed out, each of the three classes has their own climbing knack, and at the very least, rangers and barbarians are likely to have one as well. When I get to the other class' climbing knacks, I'll do a compare/contrast. Also, we have no idea if the other warrior classes are going to get exertion dice or not. I would think that barbarians and paladins, both never-say-die classes, should (can't say if rangers and monks would), which means that if either of them a climbing knack--and the barbarian should--would they need one different than this?And here's a thing about this particular iteration of this knack: while I realize that the LU team were likely thinking nonmagical difficult terrain = scree and other mountainous debris, in D&D, this would also include very thick undergrowth (like briar patches) and knee-deep pools of water--which "mountaineer" shouldn't cover.Perhaps knacks could have various options here:Climber (Druid, Fighter, Rogue only): Climb speed, you can reroll a failed Athletics check 1/rest. If you are a Druid, nonmagical terrain consisting of plants or water doesn't cost you extra movement. If you are a Fighter, nonmagical terrain consisting of unworked earth and stone doesn't cost you extra movement. If you are a Rogue, nonmagical terrain consisting of worked materials (such as loose roof tiles or a shifting gravel pathway) doesn't cost you extra movement. (And then you could add abilities for the other classes that get this knack: barbarians and fighters might share the extra ability while druids and rangers share the other.)As it is, if I'm a rogue, and I take their climbing knack, and I multiclass to fighter, there's almost no reason to take their climbing knack. This way, multiclassing opens up a new option to me.Nightwatch: Add your prof bonus to the number of hours you can spend in light activity instead of resting.Like campaigner, this one also feels very soldier-y, so it could remain Fighter-only.RogueAgile Athlete: Climb speed, expertise die on Athletics.This rogue climbing knack is fairly low-flavored compared to the fighter or druid knacks, or to my combo-knack above.Boobytrapper: Expertise die with Sleight of Hand, can use SoH to conceal Tiny traps.Clearly a rogue-only trap.Delay Trap: Expertise die with Thieves' tools, have Spidey Sense that detects mechanical traps just in time for you to duck.If it weren't for the expertise die, this could also be used by rangers (who could use it to avoid pit traps, those loop snares, bear traps, etc.).Expertise Training: Expertise die with specific skills/tools.This could be used by bards.Extra Skill Training: Extra proficiency with specific skills/tools.This could also be used by bards.Hide in Shadows: Expertise die on Stealth, can hide in dim light.While there are a few archetypes that could use this (shadow monks, e.g.), this is pretty clearly a rogue knack.Observer: Expertise die on Perception, increase passive Per by 3.This could be used by bards, but could also work as purely a rogue knack.Scout Leader: Expertise die on Stealth; when Stealthing with party, you can apply your roll to one other person as well; can travel stealthily at a normal pace.This is another one that could be used by rangers.Sense for Secrets: Expertise die on Investigation, can find hidden things after 1 minute of observation.As with Observer, this could work as a rogue-only, or could be given to bards.Tuck and Roll: Expertise die on Acrobatics, can reduce falling damage my amount rolled on Acrobatics check.This could be one given to monks, to replace their weird ability to withstand falling damage.DruidsMountain Climber: Climb speed, expertise die on Athletics, acclimated to high altitudes.The druids have that extra acclimation ability--but there's really no reason that other climbers can't get that sort of bonus, honestly.I'm not going to list all of the other druid knacks, because depending on your point of view, they're clearly all druid-only, or can also be used by rangers.[/SPOILER]So anyway, as you can see, while there are plenty of knacks that (IMO) can be shared by two or more classes, there are also plenty that are single-class only. I don't think you have to fear that shared knacks would lose flavor or versatility.Yes, knacks shouldn't be generic. But you also have to worry about having multiple knack that do one primary thing, but one having a secondary ability that is objectively better or worse than the other, or having no secondary ability when the other knack has one.</blockquote>

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