Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 8125809" data-attributes="member: 93670">Put me down for another who kinda hoped sorcerer would be con rather than charisma because charisma is such a dominating stat in social situations but I think it works & for once enough of the class leans into the charisma based core rather than just pretending it's just like a wizard but better in a lot of ways.  With that said, metamagic & manifestations can be pretty powerful so I worry that  there will still be a lot of <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WO23WBji_Z0" target="_blank">this</a> depending on how wizard & the new spell lists turn out... For now I'll assume wizard is up to snuff in its own ways when we get it <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />Manifestations are not well balanced among each other unless the spell lists really surprise us.  More importantly, I worry if whatever the wizard gets will be enough for some of the more impressive ones[spoiler="The manifestations"]<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Blizzard: "When you cast a spell that deals cold damage, you can spend 1 sorcery point and choose one creature you can see. If that creature takes cold damage from the spell, it is also chilled, reducing its movement speed by 10 feet for a number of rounds equal to the level of the spell." Ten feet really is not much when your talking about 1 creature but coupled with the damage seeming to make even single target spells multitarget it might work.  One definitely problematic note is that this could literally make a spell have a 3 mile range & possibly even work through things like scrying.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Caustic: "When you cast a spell that deals acid damage, you can spend 1 sorcery point and choose one creature you can see. If that creature takes acid damage from the spell, its Armor Class is reduced by an amount equal to the level of the spell until the end of your next turn. " This is one could be really good... buuuuuut... <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells?filter-class=0&filter-class=6&filter-search=&filter-damage-type=48&filter-verbal=&filter-somatic=&filter-material=&filter-concentration=&filter-ritual=&filter-sub-class=" target="_blank">there are almost no acid damage spells</a> & that absolutely needs to change when we eventually get the new spells.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Inferno: "When you cast a spell that deals ﬁre damage, you can spend 1 sorcery point and choose one creature you can see. If that creature takes ﬁre damage from the spell, it is also set ablaze, taking 2d4 ﬁre damage per level of the spell at the end of each of its turns until it takes an action to put itself out." 2d4*spell level DoT is a massive amount of damage so this is another really strong option even if it only takes any hypothetical action & doing so does not provoke an AoO.  Again this could let you DoT someone 3 miles away.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Hurricane: "When you cast a spell that deals lightning or thunder damage, you can spend 1 sorcery point to move yourself 10 feet in any direction. This movement does not provoke opportunity attacks." a 10 foot mistystep type thing with a spell cast might seem really neat, but compared to blizzard caustic & inferno this is just terrible.  Depeding on how spell lists tuern out however this could wind up pretty decet if evolved.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Venom: "When you cast a spell that deals poison damage, you can spend 1 sorcery point, causing creatures immune to poison damage to take half damage, and creatures resistant to poison damage to take full damage." Like acid damage spells, <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells?filter-class=0&filter-class=6&filter-search=&filter-damage-type=56&filter-verbal=&filter-somatic=&filter-material=&filter-concentration=&filter-ritual=&filter-sub-class=" target="_blank">there are just not many poison damage spells.</a> until we see the new spell list this might as well read "You can spend a sorcery point to deal half damage instead of none of a poison spray cast against undead constructs & lots of other stuff."  The seemingly poor showing here paired with the "lets go it's going to die" ability this gains when evolved makes the venom chain into one of the more powerful ones though & cutting poison immune to poison resist makes a huge deal then.</li> </ul>[/spoiler]Latent power:  These look really promising & I like that they play up the "I use charisma & I'm good at it" with expertise dice & new ways of using relevant skills aspect rather than pretending sorcerer is just a wizard who dominates in social situations.Metamagic: I like the minor/moderate split that doesn't continue pretending all metamagics are of equal value.Arcane refinement These are all pretty interesting & I like them[spoiler="arcane refinements"]<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Deep Conduit: Burn some hit dice on a short rest & take 1d6 damage/die but gain 2 sorcery points each die.  I kinda like the flavor of draining your bloodline/life force/whatever to cast a bit more paired with the sorcerer fluff.  Being linked to hit dice rather than just any shot rest get x is a good balance consideration that has the added benefit of making sorcerers care about their hit dice.  It also means this sorcerer has a lot of spell slots if someone is around to heal them.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Patient Aptitude: At least by default ritual spells just <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells?filter-class=0&filter-ritual=t&filter-search=&sort=level" target="_blank">kinda stop around 3rd level</a> for arcane casters, hopefully the new spell lists improve upon this somewhat but by allowing them to pull rituals from any spell list means this can include wow worthy trump cards to save the day like the various raise dead spells.  Even if this is used entirely for utility, getting 5 ritual spells of choice is a huge utility fig leaf making this a great choice for a lot of sorcerers... while talking about ritual spells though, the third level ritual <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/tiny-hut" target="_blank">improved force cage </a>spell needs to be stomped to hell till the unchecked munchkin is squeezed out.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Prodigious innovator: While three cantrips might not seem as good as what is gained from either of the other two, allowing them from any spell list means eldritch blast& utility/dual use cantrips not normally open to sorcerer or even arcane casters. I'm not sure if the new spell list will make this better or just the same but eldritch blast going from a class feature in 3.5 to a cantrip in 5e is still causing problems so hopefully that will revert when we see warlock.</li> </ul>[/spoiler]Rapturous Presence: These are pretty cool  in how they play up the charisma angle in interesting ways[spoiler="Rapturous Presence"]<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Larger than life: I love that this shoves sorcerer away from persuade to "we both know what this spell does" & links it to using your spells to threaten someone. Giving it a second intimidation die makes it pair well with daunting energy too.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Nobody's fool: I'm really liking the use of auras  to influence things. Mechanically i seems solid & the blurt out slip of the tongue is neat like some of the rogue stuff.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Otherworldly: This feels a little druidic, but works well here too & being able to change the creature type with a reasonable cost/short 1 min is a good way to ensure it can be flexible throughout the campaign.</li> </ul>[/spoiler]Evolving manifestation: Interesting than you can pick the second tier of your last choice or  a second manifestation from the first tier[spoiler="Evolving manifestations"]<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Evolving blizzard: Really interesting combo of gaining temp hp & a damage shield to go with it.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Evolving Caustic: Nice little bump for an underrepresented damage type  but still looking forward to seeing the eventual spell lists.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Evolving Hurricane: Interesting spirit guardians type heavily obscured difficult terrain effect.  It's too early to say without lots of testing & the new spells list, but this might make up for the meh worthy teleport in the first tier depending on how it pairs with other things we've yet to see if we wind up with a lot of spells like call lightning that improve when in the presence of a storm or obscured areas who knows.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Evolving inferno:  1d6*spell level spell attack when you cast a fire spell.  Paired with the 2d4* spell level  for 2 spell points this could make for some really nasty single target damage.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Evolving venom: 2d6 poison damage/turn until cured with a medicine check with a dc vrs your spell save dc.  For a ton of creatures this amounts to "ok it's dead, lets run & come back later when its body figures it out."</li> </ul>[/spoiler]Exploration knacks:  There are some real winners here & they compare very nicely compared to the disappointing druid ones.[spoiler="Exploration knacks"]<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Hot air: If you have spell points you take fall damage d6/20 feet rather than d6/10 feet  makes a maybe sometimes useful feather.  More interesting is the ability to "float" on water depending on how much you are carrying, but most creatures already do that & it's not clear if that means some form of  walk or just "you don't sink."  If walk that opens up a lot of cool possible uses, if float without a skill check...  it feels kinda meh.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Magnetic step: Kind of a weird magical climb speed that just feels neat</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Strange traces:  Use a sorcery point to obscure any tracks " your group" makes to be "random zig zagging & incomprehensible" making creatures tracking you have disadvantage & possibly cause them to get lost making for a much more interesting pass without a trace when trying not to be followed.  This is entirely natural terrain though and adding a clause for urban equivalent with<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZdlqTQ3PpY" target="_blank"> people</a> & the general urban chaos of life frequently seen in movie/tv urban foot chases would make this a real winner even if the campaign winds p being pretty urban where survival tracking is just not how it works.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Weird insight: get a second roll on history/nature/religion check at the cost of some mindfog  that causes disadvantage on int checks till next short rest.  Long rest is not mentioned & it's probably not intended to last till you take a short rest after a long rest if the long rest happens first... but by RAW that's what it does.... With most of my normal group having gone through covid & associated <a href="https://globalhealth.washington.edu/news/2020/10/02/how-covid-19-affects-some-people-long-after-they-become-infected-coronavirus" target="_blank">mind fog </a> back in feb this feels like one we could understand reallllly well  too.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Wode Sense: Notice you enter illusory terrain within one minute of entering it seems pretty niche but going to be really useful for some campaigns & gives the gm a fun hook they can yank  to just frankly tell the party they aren't in kansas anymore <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /></li> </ul>[/spoiler]</blockquote>

Verification