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<blockquote data-quote="Kinematics" data-source="post: 8352048" data-attributes="member: 6932123">I think the issue here is not accounting for circumstantial bonuses.&nbsp; The master craftsman building a boat isn't working by himself; he's got a whole team of workers under him.&nbsp; He also has schematics and designs, likely of boats that have been successfully made before (ie: he's not creating something entirely new each time).So bonus from good tools (as you've already mentioned); bonus for known good designs; help from the workers he employs; and possibly experience building this exact boat design numerous times.&nbsp; I'd give that at least a +6 altogether, and then +6 from proficiency/expertise, and +2 from attributes, for a +14 total. On a Take 10, that means he can reliably hit a DC 24.Applying the same to a normal craftsman should still give him a +10 or so, meaning he can hit DC 20, and thus manage a decent sailboat (even if not as finely crafted as the master craftsman who could beat the DC by 5 or more).A single person trying to build a sailboat without vetted designs? I'd expect that to be extremely hard. And a lot of crafting in general is likely to be harder, since it's based on the premise of a single craftsman.&nbsp; But at a certain point you can't scale up using just one person, but having teams work on a project gives you more headroom for high-difficulty tasks.Also figure that the first time that boatbuilder made a boat, it was probably on a Take 20, where every possible mistake was made, noted, and corrected for in later designs.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Kinematics, post: 8352048, member: 6932123"] I think the issue here is not accounting for circumstantial bonuses. The master craftsman building a boat isn't working by himself; he's got a whole team of workers under him. He also has schematics and designs, likely of boats that have been successfully made before (ie: he's not creating something entirely new each time). So bonus from good tools (as you've already mentioned); bonus for known good designs; help from the workers he employs; and possibly experience building this exact boat design numerous times. I'd give that at least a +6 altogether, and then +6 from proficiency/expertise, and +2 from attributes, for a +14 total. On a Take 10, that means he can reliably hit a DC 24. Applying the same to a normal craftsman should still give him a +10 or so, meaning he can hit DC 20, and thus manage a decent sailboat (even if not as finely crafted as the master craftsman who could beat the DC by 5 or more). A single person trying to build a sailboat without vetted designs? I'd expect that to be extremely hard. And a lot of crafting in general is likely to be harder, since it's based on the premise of a single craftsman. But at a certain point you can't scale up using just one person, but having teams work on a project gives you more headroom for high-difficulty tasks. Also figure that the first time that boatbuilder made a boat, it was probably on a Take 20, where every possible mistake was made, noted, and corrected for in later designs. [/QUOTE]

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