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Levels 1-4 are "Training Wheels?"
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<blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 8514067" data-attributes="member: 29398"><p>Not in my presence they don't, or not for long anyway.</p><p></p><p>A drum I find myself banging on more and more often here is this one: mechanics don't make the character. Attitude, personality, ethos/morals (or alignment), mannerisms, quirks, etc. - that's what makes the character, and mechanics all too often get in the way of that.</p><p></p><p>If that's the case I'd say it's because they're trying to design for a 20-level game and have to save some stuff to give out at each of the other 19 levels.</p><p></p><p>Would you say the same about 1st-level 3e classes? Or 1e? (I ask as I've more experience with those)</p><p></p><p>Some classes can take a while to show themselves in any edition. However, in any edition there's classes that show themselves immediately without regard to mechanics, and you hit one of them here: I could play a 0th-level Paladin and within five minutes you'd know exactly what class it was without it having done a mechanical thing! <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>So if I read this right, role-playing isn't actual gaming?</p><p></p><p>I think we're starting to talk in different languages here. Role-playing <strong>is</strong> the game; the mechanics are just there to abstract and define what we can't role-play.</p><p></p><p>Ah. Yes, gaming a) with friends and b) in person are IMO vital to the experience.</p><p></p><p>Even then, I've seen brand new players react in all sorts of different ways to losing their first character; and often just by that reaction I can tell which ones are going to be keepers. Laugh it off - keeper. Take it like a gambler takes a losing hand - keeper. Get stuck in to rolling up the next one with a determined expression - keeper. Pout, whine, or take it personally - not a keeper. Hissy fit - not a keeper.</p><p></p><p>Question: why not take a more old-school approach and start with only a very vague concept (e.g. this time I'll be a Monk), then let that concept evolve and refine itself during play? That way, if it dies soon you haven't "lost" as much and if it doesn't you're good to go.</p><p></p><p>As for low-level play - or any play, for that matter - being non- or anti-fun, my only response there is that the game is very often exactly as much fun as you make it be.</p><p></p><p>As an example: in fifteen minutes we'll drop the puck on a session where my PC is about half the level of the highest-level PCs in the party and maybe 1/4 as wealthy in magic. I've got two options: complain and whine and be negative about it, or make it fun and enjoy it. I choose the latter.</p><p></p><p>I've never played through a true TPK (I've DMed only one) but I've seen many many PCs die, both my own and those of others. Easy come, easy go, I say: adventuring is a lethally dangerous way to make a living and not everyone's going to survive.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Lanefan, post: 8514067, member: 29398"] Not in my presence they don't, or not for long anyway. A drum I find myself banging on more and more often here is this one: mechanics don't make the character. Attitude, personality, ethos/morals (or alignment), mannerisms, quirks, etc. - that's what makes the character, and mechanics all too often get in the way of that. If that's the case I'd say it's because they're trying to design for a 20-level game and have to save some stuff to give out at each of the other 19 levels. Would you say the same about 1st-level 3e classes? Or 1e? (I ask as I've more experience with those) Some classes can take a while to show themselves in any edition. However, in any edition there's classes that show themselves immediately without regard to mechanics, and you hit one of them here: I could play a 0th-level Paladin and within five minutes you'd know exactly what class it was without it having done a mechanical thing! :) So if I read this right, role-playing isn't actual gaming? I think we're starting to talk in different languages here. Role-playing [B]is[/B] the game; the mechanics are just there to abstract and define what we can't role-play. Ah. Yes, gaming a) with friends and b) in person are IMO vital to the experience. Even then, I've seen brand new players react in all sorts of different ways to losing their first character; and often just by that reaction I can tell which ones are going to be keepers. Laugh it off - keeper. Take it like a gambler takes a losing hand - keeper. Get stuck in to rolling up the next one with a determined expression - keeper. Pout, whine, or take it personally - not a keeper. Hissy fit - not a keeper. Question: why not take a more old-school approach and start with only a very vague concept (e.g. this time I'll be a Monk), then let that concept evolve and refine itself during play? That way, if it dies soon you haven't "lost" as much and if it doesn't you're good to go. As for low-level play - or any play, for that matter - being non- or anti-fun, my only response there is that the game is very often exactly as much fun as you make it be. As an example: in fifteen minutes we'll drop the puck on a session where my PC is about half the level of the highest-level PCs in the party and maybe 1/4 as wealthy in magic. I've got two options: complain and whine and be negative about it, or make it fun and enjoy it. I choose the latter. I've never played through a true TPK (I've DMed only one) but I've seen many many PCs die, both my own and those of others. Easy come, easy go, I say: adventuring is a lethally dangerous way to make a living and not everyone's going to survive. [/QUOTE]
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Levels 1-4 are "Training Wheels?"
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