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Message: <blockquote data-quote="kaomera" data-source="post: 3693089" data-attributes="member: 38357">I agree about inherited position not resulting in an instant level boost; I hadn't really meant that all Barons had to be 9th level, so much as that the political power inherent in that position was (roughly, only) similar to the physical (personal) powers of a 9th level Fighter. Does that make any sense? That's sort of what I was looking for in regards to 3e, if such a thing is even possible...I'll admit that in 1e I did have the average NPC (specifically those who had no specific in-game reason not to follow this guideline) tend twords such levels personally; so that  the 9-year old (0 level) son of the King described above would tend to advance twords 10th level himself as he matured (and if he survived). In 3e terms he would be facing ~CR13 (actually, I think this is one place where simply doubling 1e levels breaks down rather badly...) challenges, mostly of a social / political / roleplaying sort. Therefore, without someone backing him up (a Regent, his father's trusted retainers, the church if Divine Right is in play, the general populace who may see him as a national father-figure, etc...) even the significant circumstance bonuses I would grant to the kingdom's legitimate heir he's going to fall flat on his face...So I guess I'm wondering if this really only holds up if you assume "that Titles can only be earned, not awarded as a political favor or inherited"... I think it's significant that if the heir is not a young child but instead a seasoned adventurer who's been away looting dungeons and such (and assuming that the player in question has invested in appropriate skills) he will be significantly better prepared to deal with the position and rank he now finds himself in. If he's not 10th level then he still hasn't done enough to deserve the title of King, but he still deserves that position due to his birthright. And likewise, a different character who is, say, 12th level isn't automatically a King, but he certainly could (again given the right skills) be qualified to carve out a Kingdom, he can meet  the challenges that would pose, probably in many cases by himself.Another possible example: a party of ~13th level characters decides that they should free a region under the oppression of a Necromantic cabal and set up shop there, but none of them are particularly suited to diplomacy, politics, or civic leadership. If one of them picks up an Aristocrat as a cohort (cohort in game terms, the relationship is liable to be somewhat more complex than that implies, I'd think), isn't that NPC going to have a much easier time setting up a workable government with four such PCs working with him, let alone the four who saved the local populace from Undead horrors?In 1e my players often got the urge to play at politics at some point in their characters' careers. However, they really where just playing at it, they didn't crown themselves King (or even, typically, mess much at all with inherited titles at all). Mostly they would co-opt some of the powers of appointed leaders like Mayors and such, and they usually did so far more via political maneuvering, offering favors, and the subtle (well, mostly) threat of some very un-subtle acts of violence... (See also: Urban Renewal, the Fireball Spell, and You.) They usually started this fairly early (4th thru 6th levels, IIRC), then got tired of it and went on to other stuff. This is part of where my 1:2 conversion of 1e:3e levels comes from, in that I think that expecting 3e characters (and players) to get involved in such stuff at that early a level might be a bit off...</blockquote>

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