Libris Mortis : CR adjustment for Corpsecrafter and related feat?

[Shin Okada]

Hi there,

LM has introduced interesting feats which allow a caster to slightly stronger undead monsters. But how we DMs should treat those "boosted" undeads?

MM is suggesting that even a monster with above average stats (standard array) worth +1 CR. If an undead is created with all of those feats, the thing has +4 str, +2 hp per HD, +4 turn resistance, +1d6 cold damage, negative energy explosion when slain, +2 natural armor, +4 to initiative and +10 ft./round. Even just +4 str and +2 hp per HD may largely change the deadliness of a Zombie.

 

[Spatula]

Sure, but the necromancer behind all those undead has no other feats, which cuts into the character's effectiveness in a straight-up fight. So I wouldn't really worry about changing the CR of the undead minions.

 

[glass]

Sure, but the necromancer behind all those undead has no other feats, which cuts into the character's effectiveness in a straight-up fight. So I wouldn't really worry about changing the CR of the undead minions.

If it is just one small group of minions accompanying the necromancer, or if the fight with the necromancer is immanent, then I wouldn't worry about CR.

OTOH, if the PCs are fighting this guys minions for months, then all those minions add up to a little more than a standard feat IMHO. I'd probably still only give them a small boost though. Maybe +1 CR accross the board?


glass.

 

[two]

Sure, but the necromancer behind all those undead has no other feats, which cuts into the character's effectiveness in a straight-up fight. So I wouldn't really worry about changing the CR of the undead minions.

I don't agree with this line of reasoning at all. Not all feats are of the same strength, and some feats (such as these undead boosting ones) get stronger and stronger with preparation. Meaning, if you use these feats to create 1 zombie, it's kinda eh. If you use it to create 100 zombies, the feat's power is huge. And this example makes it sound as if the feats were used in a lot of undead-creation.

To put it even more clearly: is it fair to give the same XP for a 10th level fighter with an 8th level cleric cohort vs. a 10th level fighter with the endurance feat? According to the formula, yes, I guess. The fighter has "used up" a feat on his cohort so that balances out the "endurance" feat. Except, of course, the feats are of wildly different strengths.

Ditto a NPC party of 5 of which all 5 have clerical/tough cohorts. Still the same XP as a NPC party with no cohorts but 5 more feats to spend between them? Only in one's dreams.

At some point the GM should jump in and make the judgement that a necromancer with these feats + a year to create undead is a higher CR than a vanilla necromancer without these feats + a year to create undead.

They are probably balanced short term (not enough time to get the feats much use) but long term the feats begin to shine.

So, in my opinion, absolutely. Up the CR's of the zombies and the Necromancer. It's kinda the same reasoning as upping the CR of an ambush/trap. The enemy has time to prepare and gets the drop on the PC's. In this case, the "drop" involves massive use of undead-creation feats.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

If your fighting the undead with the neco it might be worth 0 xp anyways depends if you consider the undead to be just like a summoned monster or not. If you don't well the necro is way weaker himself since he wasted feats on this(I really like the idea but its way too many feats for what you get, maybe combined the negative energy burst with the turn resistance so its only a total of 4 feats) so I'd say no CR boost since they balance with the weaker necro.

But lots of times you bump into undead by themsleves undead that aren't under control or are following orders form a long dead necro or whatever. In that case if they were made with most to all definetly a +1cr is in order maybe a +2 even on some undead who seem to be boarderline the next highest CR anyways.