Libris Mortis Problem?

[reanjr]

I'm afraid I don't have my books in front of me, but I will try to explain the issue as well as possible.

This last weekend one of my players got Libris Mortis and decided to use the Summon Undead II (I think it was 2) spell. It says in the spell description to use the table for 2nd level creatures. On the table, it lists Large Skeleton as one of the options.

Back to the Monster Manual (3.5), he finds Large Ettin Skeleton and decides to summon that. It's a CR 5 creature. The caster himself is only level 4. What's going on here? Did I miss something? I house-ruled it that instead of based on size, he could summon a Skeleton of the appropriate CR, but still...

 

[Thanee]

It's a known problem since the Player's Guide to Faerûn. They simply have left the 3.0 undead types in there, altho skeletons and zombies changed considerably in 3.5.

Blame WotC for not being able to correct this even after having printed the spells in two different books now... :\

The best solution is to pick out a skeleton or zombie that fits the power level of the spell and replace the entry with that.

EDIT: Apparantly in the errata to PGtF they added the following...

Page 114: Summon Undead I Spell
Add the following sentence to the spell description: “No
undead creature you summon can have more Hit Dice
than your caster level +1.”

Bye
Thanee

 

[reanjr]

It's a known problem since the Player's Guide to Faerûn. They simply have left the 3.0 undead types in there, altho skeletons and zombies changed considerably in 3.5.

Blame WotC for not being able to correct this even after having printed the spells in two different books now... :\

The best solution is to pick out a skeleton or zombie that fits the power level of the spell and replace the entry with that.

EDIT: Apparantly in the errata to PGtF they added the following...



Bye
Thanee

Alright, thanks!

 

[cmanos]

lets build an Ogre Skeleton

first it changes to a Large Undead
Hit Dice change to 4d12+11

Natural Armor changes from +5 to +2, drop the hide armor, cause it's probably rotted off, Dex has changed giving no penalty, so AC is 11

Base attack will go to 1/2 it's hit dice...or +2

Gains Immunity to Cold (Ex)
Damage Reduction 5/Bludgeoning

Dex increases to 10...affecting its AC
No Con so no bonus HP...

Saves change to Fort +1, Ref +1, Will +3

Drop all Skills and Feats, Add improved Initiative

CR is based on HD and a 4 HD ogre skeleton would be CR2

Unless the spell specifically states he can raise Etting Skeletons, I'd say it summons something like the owlbear or the troll skeleton, both at CR2.

 

[Li Shenron]

I thought the overlook done in Libris Mortis was a bad design mistake.

Now that I hear that PGtF had already done the same bad design mistake, the one in Libris Mortis becomes a bad design mistake squared

I wonder why is it so difficult to check...

 

[Magesmiley]

Yes, this ocurred in the game I play in too. I was actually the player in question for our group I'd originally taken the Summon Undead 3 spell anticipating summoning a ghoul to paralyze things and I realized how nasty the skeletons were for that level of spell.

Two Cloud Giant skeletons later :\ , we all agreed it was too nasty and did some looking. We came across some errata somewhere (I don't recall the exact location) which limited you to summoning creatures up to your caster level + 1 in HD (which somewhat fixes the problem).

 

[jodyjohnson]

I recall Andy Collins talking about how his work on Libris Mortis was done a year ago in the Dragon interview.

The mistake is made in both places because both were being written at the same time, and certainly it seems like work on LM was completed before the PGtF errata came out.

The books are sometimes finished well in advance of their appearance on the market.

 

[Thanee]

Makes sense, even tho it's no excuse... they should know what they had written in there and changes are always possible before it goes into print.

Well, one more errata entry coming up then, I guess...

Bye
Thanee