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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Li Shenron" data-source="post: 1805472" data-attributes="member: 1465">If that was true, then immortality would be worth a mean +1 to CR (unless you consider all the other lich specials being worth no CR altogether) which doesn't really sound the case!  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /> I know why this sort of thought: a creature's abilities are always said to be affecting their CR, so for example you don't get Xp for killing a summoned creature because it's part of the summoner's Xp, right?But this sort of immortality really changes NOTHING in the encounter difficulty. It may (if you don't kill the Lich at the first encounter) make the adventure more difficulty, effectively creating a second encounter, but it doesn't make the Lich more powerful in the first one. That's why I think it doesn't really affect its CR.Incidentally you DO GET the Xp for defeating an Outsider which for some unknown reason may not really die permanently unless killed on its home plane, you don't expect to not be given Xp until you go to his plane to do that...That is in fact a very good idea to handle it! In a way it makes the player think that the characters are not learning much from defeating the same foe over and over (it's like solving the same math problem twice: the first time is when you really learn something, the following are at best mere refresh exercises), therefore they get "less experience" than before. They will get some extra once they finally "learn" how to overcome the final challenge of permanently kill it. I like it!  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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