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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 6873941" data-attributes="member: 996">Much like they were back in the day, yes.  Thus 'backtracked.'  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> Maybe not technically, if you consider failing that 3rd death save unrelated to hp loss.  (They do drop characters, though, necessitating in-combat healing to get them back up into the fight.)Yep, thus the partial backtracking.  HD represent less of a resource than surges did, as little as 1/3rd the resource for tougher characters.  The three full-caster support classes in 5e were all leader classes in 4e and/or Essentials.  The Paladin was a 'secondary' leader.  The big difference between a support-capable full caster in 5e and a 4e leader is that the 4e leader, though able to contribute in other ways, could not just change his stripes overnight and become a controller or striker, while any 5e caster can largely reconfigure itself just based on spells prepared (or even spells cast spontaneously during the day, assuming a fair variety prepared).It's fairly straightforward, really.  The D&D adventuring 'day' is ultimately limited by hp attrition.  Fewer hp resources, including using slots for support magic to mitigate hp damage or restore hps, ultimately means shorter days.  Whether that's arbitrarily via 'DM force' or as a coping mechanism through 'skilled play.' Which is the wrong way to look at the progression of the trend.  5e definitely gives less healing to everyone (more 'healing burden' placed on support casters) than 4e, which gave more than 3e, which, via Wands had also taken healing burden off of casters relative to prior editions.  Though the means and details varied, D&D was on a path to equalize healing burden without doing away with the traditional Cleric (support) iconic roll entirely, simply making it more appealing and better-balanced.  5e has reversed that trend.  All part of evoking that classic feel.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></blockquote>

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